8 ms·

If you are given only 5 days to comply with some request, that's how complicated your infra at AWS should be - so you can migrate to another provider in that ti

If you are given only 5 days to comply with some request, that's how complicated your infra at AWS should be - so you can migrate to another provider in that time. Just use EC2 and basic primitives which are easy to migrate (ie S3, SES)

S0y 1y ago
>Just use EC2 and basic primitives which are easy to migrate (ie S3, SES) If that's your whole infra you really shouldn't be on AWS in the first place.
- adastra22 1y ago
  A bit ironic when that entire stack was invented at AWS.
  - NewJazz 1y ago
    VMs were invented at AWS? Blob storage?
    - adastra22 1y ago
      EC2? S3? Yes. That kind of "cloud" tech was invented at AWS. Nothing like the ec2 API existed before Amazon. It's what made AWS big. Maybe my graybeard is showing, but I remember when that kind of pre-containerization cloud provisioned VM resources was a radically new idea.
      - cnst 1y ago
        FreeBSD jail predates Amazon Web Services, and so does SWsoft's Virtuozzo that was subsequently open-sourced as OpenVZ. For Amazon SES, DJB's qmail made it possible to send a ridiculous amount of subscription emails very efficiently, too. I've been using a VPS powered by Virtuozzo since like 2002 or 2003, how is EC2 all that different? Just the API? Per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtuozzo_(company) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtuozzo_(company), SWsoft was founded in 1997, and publicly released Virtuozzo in 2000. Per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeBSD_jail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeBSD_jail, FreeBSD jail was committed into FreeBSD in 1999 "after some period of production use by a hosting provider", and released with FreeBSD 4.0 in 2000. Per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qmail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qmail, qmail was released in 1998. Today, lots of AWS services are basically just re-packaged OSS packages.
        adastra22 1y ago
        EC2 services aren't tied to a machine, just a region. The details of what machine to instantiate a VM on, or the details of moving a VM between hosts, attaching remote drives over IP, or handling the networking that makes this all possible, that was worked out by Amazon to host Amazon.com, which they then resold as a service under the banner AWS. The pieces were there, but not a unified "cloud" architecture. This is smelling like the classic "Dropbox isn't anything new" HN comment. TODAY amazon services are just re-packaged OSS packages, yes. That wasn't the case before.
        supriyo-biswas 1y ago
        This is such a blatant rewrite of history; as an example live migrations were a thing in Xen: https://docs.redhat.com/en/documentation/red_hat_enterprise_linux/5/html/virtualization/chap-virtualization-xen_live_migration https://docs.redhat.com/en/documentation/red_hat_enterprise_....
        whstl 1y ago
        Quoting myself from another post: A lot of people in this industry have near-zero operations knowledge that doesn't involve AWS, and it's frightening. They also have near-zero knowledge on the history of the field.
        adastra22 1y ago
        I didn’t realize Xen migrations were made available from a uniform web API accessible from remote tools and fully abstracted/automated at the cluster level. You are focused on the details and missing entirely the point of my post.
        cnst 1y ago
        What do you think was the purpose of FreeBSD jail, Virtuozzo and Xen? https://web.archive.org/web/20011204195446/http://www.sw-soft.com/en/products/virtuozzo/ https://web.archive.org/web/20011204195446/http://www.sw-sof... https://web.archive.org/web/20011224040032/http://www.sw-soft.com/en/products/virtuozzo/basics/ https://web.archive.org/web/20011224040032/http://www.sw-sof... That's 2001, and Virtuozzo was already advertised supporting migrations. OpenVZ remained super popular for at least like 10 years after it was open-sourced as OpenVZ in 2005, well into 2015, at least. Primarily because it allowed over-provisioning of RAM and all the other resources, which wasn't possible in other environments without the memory balloon drivers and other issues. I imagine the major reason OpenVZ has declined in popularity is because nowadays memory is cheap enough that over-provisioning of RAM isn't that much of a selling point, and not being able to run your own kernel with processor-guaranteed virtualisation, is deemed too old-fashioned and less secure for true multitenancy than Linux-KVM, which has basically taken over the entire market, from both Xen and OpenVZ, and VMware, and everybody else. Even Amazon EC2 is based on Linux-KVM now, whereas previously it was based on Xen.
jasonvorhe 1y ago
The amount of people shilling for a multi billion dollar corporation is baffling.
- whstl 1y ago
  You know the quote: It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. A lot of people in this industry have near-zero operations knowledge that doesn't involve AWS, and it's frightening.
  - jasonvorhe 1y ago
    True. I get that you can blame someone for having no backups and yoloing their thing. But OP did so much right if the threat model doesn't involve "corporate behemoth anti-user automation nukes everything including backups". Everyone saying "you should've had offsite backups" certainly has a point but 99% of the blame lies with AWS here. This entire process must've crossed so many highly paid "experts" and no one considered freezing an account before nuking it for some compliance thing. It's just baffling. Hope these cases will lead to more people leaving the clouds and going back to on-prem stuff.
    - anonymars 1y ago
      Worth noting that's not the only way this can be a single point of failure, this one was an account breach: https://www.infosecurity-magazine.com/news/code-spaces-demise-exposes-cloud/ https://www.infosecurity-magazine.com/news/code-spaces-demis...
    - whstl 1y ago
      It is worth saying that AWS educates people to behave like this. In the last "mandatory education program" I participated, the AWS instructor laughed at the possibility of data loss.
- AtlasBarfed 1y ago
  Should I bring up Elon Musk? That gets into cult behavior
cnst 1y ago
Why use any AWS at all when the other providers offer a cheaper product with better service?
seuros 1y ago
Hi, The infrastructure was not complex at at all, i can transfer it in 1 day. I was hospitalized, in another city, with all the computer at home, and locked behind 2FA. They send me is on notice on Thursday, by Monday evening, all access was revoked. For weeks i asked for a readonly access to my data, then they could take anytime they want to verify, they refused. And he more i ask about my data, they more they avoid to speak about it. Think about it , you could be sick, on a trip, having jetlag, in some festival, getting married... by the time you are back online, the delay was gone.

S0y 1y ago

>Just use EC2 and basic primitives which are easy to migrate (ie S3, SES) If that's your whole infra you really shouldn't be on AWS in the first place.

adastra22 1y ago
A bit ironic when that entire stack was invented at AWS.
- NewJazz 1y ago
  VMs were invented at AWS? Blob storage?
  - adastra22 1y ago
    EC2? S3? Yes. That kind of "cloud" tech was invented at AWS. Nothing like the ec2 API existed before Amazon. It's what made AWS big. Maybe my graybeard is showing, but I remember when that kind of pre-containerization cloud provisioned VM resources was a radically new idea.
    - cnst 1y ago
      FreeBSD jail predates Amazon Web Services, and so does SWsoft's Virtuozzo that was subsequently open-sourced as OpenVZ. For Amazon SES, DJB's qmail made it possible to send a ridiculous amount of subscription emails very efficiently, too. I've been using a VPS powered by Virtuozzo since like 2002 or 2003, how is EC2 all that different? Just the API? Per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtuozzo_(company) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtuozzo_(company), SWsoft was founded in 1997, and publicly released Virtuozzo in 2000. Per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeBSD_jail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeBSD_jail, FreeBSD jail was committed into FreeBSD in 1999 "after some period of production use by a hosting provider", and released with FreeBSD 4.0 in 2000. Per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qmail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qmail, qmail was released in 1998. Today, lots of AWS services are basically just re-packaged OSS packages.
      - adastra22 1y ago
        EC2 services aren't tied to a machine, just a region. The details of what machine to instantiate a VM on, or the details of moving a VM between hosts, attaching remote drives over IP, or handling the networking that makes this all possible, that was worked out by Amazon to host Amazon.com, which they then resold as a service under the banner AWS. The pieces were there, but not a unified "cloud" architecture. This is smelling like the classic "Dropbox isn't anything new" HN comment. TODAY amazon services are just re-packaged OSS packages, yes. That wasn't the case before.
        supriyo-biswas 1y ago
        This is such a blatant rewrite of history; as an example live migrations were a thing in Xen: https://docs.redhat.com/en/documentation/red_hat_enterprise_linux/5/html/virtualization/chap-virtualization-xen_live_migration https://docs.redhat.com/en/documentation/red_hat_enterprise_....
        whstl 1y ago
        Quoting myself from another post: A lot of people in this industry have near-zero operations knowledge that doesn't involve AWS, and it's frightening. They also have near-zero knowledge on the history of the field.
        adastra22 1y ago
        I didn’t realize Xen migrations were made available from a uniform web API accessible from remote tools and fully abstracted/automated at the cluster level. You are focused on the details and missing entirely the point of my post.
        cnst 1y ago
        What do you think was the purpose of FreeBSD jail, Virtuozzo and Xen? https://web.archive.org/web/20011204195446/http://www.sw-soft.com/en/products/virtuozzo/ https://web.archive.org/web/20011204195446/http://www.sw-sof... https://web.archive.org/web/20011224040032/http://www.sw-soft.com/en/products/virtuozzo/basics/ https://web.archive.org/web/20011224040032/http://www.sw-sof... That's 2001, and Virtuozzo was already advertised supporting migrations. OpenVZ remained super popular for at least like 10 years after it was open-sourced as OpenVZ in 2005, well into 2015, at least. Primarily because it allowed over-provisioning of RAM and all the other resources, which wasn't possible in other environments without the memory balloon drivers and other issues. I imagine the major reason OpenVZ has declined in popularity is because nowadays memory is cheap enough that over-provisioning of RAM isn't that much of a selling point, and not being able to run your own kernel with processor-guaranteed virtualisation, is deemed too old-fashioned and less secure for true multitenancy than Linux-KVM, which has basically taken over the entire market, from both Xen and OpenVZ, and VMware, and everybody else. Even Amazon EC2 is based on Linux-KVM now, whereas previously it was based on Xen.

jasonvorhe 1y ago

The amount of people shilling for a multi billion dollar corporation is baffling.

whstl 1y ago
You know the quote: It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. A lot of people in this industry have near-zero operations knowledge that doesn't involve AWS, and it's frightening.
- jasonvorhe 1y ago
  True. I get that you can blame someone for having no backups and yoloing their thing. But OP did so much right if the threat model doesn't involve "corporate behemoth anti-user automation nukes everything including backups". Everyone saying "you should've had offsite backups" certainly has a point but 99% of the blame lies with AWS here. This entire process must've crossed so many highly paid "experts" and no one considered freezing an account before nuking it for some compliance thing. It's just baffling. Hope these cases will lead to more people leaving the clouds and going back to on-prem stuff.
  - anonymars 1y ago
    Worth noting that's not the only way this can be a single point of failure, this one was an account breach: https://www.infosecurity-magazine.com/news/code-spaces-demise-exposes-cloud/ https://www.infosecurity-magazine.com/news/code-spaces-demis...
  - whstl 1y ago
    It is worth saying that AWS educates people to behave like this. In the last "mandatory education program" I participated, the AWS instructor laughed at the possibility of data loss.
AtlasBarfed 1y ago
Should I bring up Elon Musk? That gets into cult behavior

cnst 1y ago

Why use any AWS at all when the other providers offer a cheaper product with better service?

seuros 1y ago

Hi, The infrastructure was not complex at at all, i can transfer it in 1 day. I was hospitalized, in another city, with all the computer at home, and locked behind 2FA. They send me is on notice on Thursday, by Monday evening, all access was revoked. For weeks i asked for a readonly access to my data, then they could take anytime they want to verify, they refused. And he more i ask about my data, they more they avoid to speak about it. Think about it , you could be sick, on a trip, having jetlag, in some festival, getting married... by the time you are back online, the delay was gone.