8 ms·

Real humans are also fake and they are also traps who are waiting to catch you when you say something they don't like. Then they also use every word and piece o

Real humans are also fake and they are also traps who are waiting to catch you when you say something they don't like. Then they also use every word and piece of information as ammunition against you, ironically sort of similar to the criticism always levied against online platforms who track you and what you say. AI robots are going to easily replace real humans because compared to most real humans the AI is already a saint. They don't have an ego, they don't try to gaslight you, they actually care about what you say which is practically impossible to find in real life.. I mean this isn't even going to be a competition. Real humans are not going to be able to evolve into the kind of objectively better human beings that they would need to be to compete with a robot.

AlecSchueler 1y ago
Real humans are real. Their flaws are real. Your emotions around them are real and so are the benefits to socialising. Accepting people as the flawed actors they are is a part of becoming a mature adult.
- Nathanba 1y ago
  AI is also real to me. My emotions around AI are also real, I deeply appreciate when the AI helps me figure something out or talks to me. I think this type of response will get rarer as AI develops further and people realize that there is now competition and these sentimental reasons will have much less weight. I also have no idea what you mean by "benefits to socializing", I don't see much of any benefit compared to socializing with an AI. Also saying things like "accepting flaws is maturity" is the sort of things that you say when you have no alternative. Once people realize that they can indeed pick an AI friend as their personal best friend suddenly you don't have to put up with all these human flaws anymore.
  - AlecSchueler 1y ago
    I can only suggest you ask your AI friends about the benefits of socialising and its importance to human development, they can explain it to you in a way that might not make you defensive. Yes, accepting things you have no control over is a sign of maturity. Hiding in your room talking to your phone won't make the scary people outside disappear, you're going to have to deal with them someday.
    - Nathanba 1y ago
      This is a great example of what I'm talking about in regards to humans vs AI. First you misunderstand my comment, barely even responding to it, then you paint me as defensive even though I've been very open and the absolute opposite of defensive. It's actually you who is being defensive now, starting on a clear attack and painting me into some kind of scared recluse corner, somebody who supposedly can't even understand why socialising is important and telling me to go talk to my AI friends to figure it out. I mean you gave a great example of a toxic, hurt human ego here, showing the incredible value of AI friends in the future. Because who would choose such a type of conversation over an empathetic, kind AI that cares and understands what I typed? For example an AI would understand that I'm not just talking about a chatbox on a phone, I've clearly mentioned full robots and this is all a forward looking conversation about future AI which will have bodies and can interact like humans. There is going to be real competition for humans soon and I think people are overestimating the value of humans a lot.
      - kovek 1y ago
        Why are you socializing with humans on Hacker News right now?
        rogerrogerr 1y ago
        Wait you’re _humans_?! I thought the AI had taken everyone’s jobs, surely it started with the HN commenter positions!
        jachee 1y ago
        <meme> Wait, you guys are getting paid? </meme>
      - drusenko 1y ago
        Your idea of there being competition for human relationships is super fascinating. In my own life, there are fun/easy relationships, and there are those which push me to think deeply and differently, for any number of reasons. In that vein, doesn’t “competition for relationships” necessarily breed egocentrism above all else? The winning relationship will give you what you want, but not what is necessarily true… In that vein, you might also consider that the commenters you’re replying to may be worth engaging intellectually with more deeply purely based on the fact that they’re presenting divergent views that are uncomfortable. Based on how we’ve designed AI to date and how you describe it in terms of optimizing for self enjoyment for each individual (and difficult to argue most will choose that for themselves), it’s hard to see a world where AI can push productive conflict the way humans can. Then again, I might just be a flawed human who doesn’t fully understand the point you are trying to make and is extrapolating from my own biases, flaws, experiences, and the limited sample size I have of your point of view.
  - xg15 1y ago
    Your emotions for the AI are real, but the AI's emotions for you aren't.
    - CrimsonRain 1y ago
      why is electricity in your brain real? and fake in the AI?
      - AlecSchueler 1y ago
        The electricity in both things are real, and it's unkind to twist the words of the person you responded to that way. They specifically mentioned emotions, not electricity. An AI will be completely unaffected by anything said to it.
        akoboldfrying 1y ago
        I think it's a legitimate question, because ultimately all brain activity is electrical and chemical signals. To say that some electrical signal objectively is or is not an emotion implies that there is some objective rule for deciding this -- but I'm not aware of any such rule, only longstanding conventions.
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
        jachee 1y ago
        AI isn’t programmed to have emotions. Merely to replicate a semblance of a simulacrum of said sensations. Regardless of your considerations for the electrical signals, the models are just tab-completion, ad infinitum.
        CrimsonRain 1y ago
        Your emotions are just a tab-completion to God/Creator/or whatever.
- lunar-whitey 1y ago
  No one here is going to help the parent poster by assuming a superior position and lecturing them. It is totally unproductive. I suspect they have been hearing statements like this their entire life. Everything I am reading here is consistent with the perspective of someone with a difference in ability (probably neurodevelopmental) that has experienced persistent social rejection as a result. People systematically fail to recognize or emphasize with this.
  - AlecSchueler 1y ago
    I like how you made this point by taking a superior position and lecturing us all about it. The person I responded to seems like a lost cause, my response was more intended to sway other young people who might be reading along.
    - lunar-whitey 1y ago
      Thanks for admitting you are disingenuously harassing the parent poster for the benefit of whatever in-group you happen to find yourself in. I hope they come to understand what you are doing and do something productive with that knowledge. Are people like the parent poster not also real humans with real flaws? Do you really understand that yourself?
spencerflem 1y ago
This comment makes me so sad- I mean this genuinely, looking at your comment history its clear you've fallen into the far right rabbit hole, and this is what "catch you when you say something they don't like" means. No shade to you, there are hundred billion dollar campaigns waged to trap people in ideas like those that are designed to be isolating. But their goal is to push you away from friends and family and towards extremist beliefs. I emphasize with how it must feel to seem iced out and victimised, it sounds awful! but this is not a normal position to have and most people do not believe the humans around them are fake or gaslighting
- socalgal2 1y ago
  Your comment makes me sad, its clear you've fallen into the "blind left" rabbit hole. You take a comment like "catch you when you say something they don't like" means and assume they are "far right". On a spectrum of 1 to 10 where 1 is right and 10 is left. You can be at 6-7 and the people are 8-9-10 will shout your head off. This is a well documented issue in this day and age. Plenty of left thought leaders complaining about the ultra left.
  - spencerflem 1y ago
    No offense, but if they're having so much trouble maintaining connections with the people around them that they believe that they have no more need for other humans altogether, something has gone wrong. The far right was from looking at their comment history and a little bit of reading between the lines. Maybe my read is wrong, but if you don't at least see the parent comment as a cry for help I don't know what to tell you. Its well documented that online people will scream their heads off because there's no relationship worth maintaining, everything is temporary, but IRL a much wider range is tolerated.
  - achierius 1y ago
    Why are you going out of your way to defend "humans are unnecessary, we can self-actualize using only machines" as some sort of 'center-right' virtue? If anything I would hope and expect right-wingers to value human connection (quite the venerable tradition, mind you) even more than the left.
davis 1y ago
Man, you need to hang around different and good people if this is your world view.
- tgmatt 1y ago
  I don't know where these mythical "good people" are, but they have been few and far between in my experience. People _will_ let you down, people _will_ disappoint you, even the so-called "good" ones, even family. I don't have the same opinion of AI as the OP, I've never used it for anything other than questions that needed answering or work related stuff, and I don't think I could ever use it for personal things, but I agree that people overwhelmingly suck.
  - jayd16 1y ago
    Family being human and letting you down is different than being out to get you. Family can certainly suck. It's the one group you don't get to pick, but I think people are generally good but flawed.
  - cindyllm 1y ago
    [dead]
jama211 1y ago
This is a fairly unhinged take my friend.
teaearlgraycold 1y ago
Maybe talk with a therapist
- jayd16 1y ago
  This is getting down voted because it can be insulting on it's face but I think I agree. If you look at every relationship this way, it seems likely there is something to work through. Not everyone is out to get everyone else.
  - teaearlgraycold 1y ago
    It was a sincere comment, not intended as “lol seek help”
HaZeust 1y ago
This outlook on life is a perilous endeavor. Eliminate lesser friends, curate your circle to find better ones, talk to a professional about your ill-advised beliefs on humanity at large. It's not an easy process, but it's a necessary one. Write it down, make a plan.
- zwnow 1y ago
  These "ill-advised beliefs" are extremely valid beliefs. Most humans are just ignorant and human history has shown that plenty of times. I admire people blind enough to see the good in humanity
  - saltwatercowboy 1y ago
    Your attitude is sadly widespread in tech. I don't know if it's because of rejection, or fear, or something else, but we really are nothing more than the social world we live in. Substituting that for a theoretically perfect AI 'companion' is hollow and destructive. It's like watching the movie 'Her' and thinking - wow, that looks great.
    - zwnow 1y ago
      I dont use AI for social interaction, I'd feel like a loser if I did that. But I also have a lot of trust issues with regular humans as I got disappointed over and over again. Didn't try to connect with people for over 10 years now.
      - saltwatercowboy 1y ago
        Well, you seem nice enough to me.
        mulmen 1y ago
        Is this sarcasm? Do you actually know the person you are replying to or are you just saying what you think they want or need to hear? How does this differentiate you from an LLM from the perspective of a reader?
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
jaco6 1y ago
[dead]
advael 1y ago
This view of social interaction seems symptomatic of internet socialization, specifically social media. Since engagement is often driven better by controversy, the overall incentives in that context make an experience like yours more likely. Similarly, LLM providers who offer a public-facing chat service tend to be incentivized to tune their models to foment addiction. While people can indeed treat each other awfully sometimes, I think you could benefit a lot from seeking out specifically in-person interactions, perhaps in a context with a shared activity that can take some of the edge off of direct interpersonal engagement
moosey 1y ago
This cynicism isn't useful. You speak about how everyone wants to use every word against you, but your generalizations about people make me believe that you are the one looking for some kind of failure. Listen, I don't know what kind of friends you are seeking, or what social groups you're in, and it's true that there are lots of people seeking power or to put others down. However, your statements fail basic logic and bias checks for in/out group bias, categorical error, inductive reasoning. To me, it sounds like you are judging humanity based on the interactions on Twitter. I assure you, the vast majority of humanity are nowhere close to the machiavellian narcissists you make them out to be. Then again, I don't spend my time seeking power, or trying to get people to follow my socially extreme views, like veganism. And yet, lots of people are these subjectively better humans that you describe. I say subjective because good, bad, evil... All labels, they're really just the fundamental attribution error. I recommend that you learn about categorical error and fundamental attribution error, and free yourself from the language that pushes us apart. That causes us to judge and hate.

AlecSchueler 1y ago

Real humans are real. Their flaws are real. Your emotions around them are real and so are the benefits to socialising. Accepting people as the flawed actors they are is a part of becoming a mature adult.

Nathanba 1y ago
AI is also real to me. My emotions around AI are also real, I deeply appreciate when the AI helps me figure something out or talks to me. I think this type of response will get rarer as AI develops further and people realize that there is now competition and these sentimental reasons will have much less weight. I also have no idea what you mean by "benefits to socializing", I don't see much of any benefit compared to socializing with an AI. Also saying things like "accepting flaws is maturity" is the sort of things that you say when you have no alternative. Once people realize that they can indeed pick an AI friend as their personal best friend suddenly you don't have to put up with all these human flaws anymore.
- AlecSchueler 1y ago
  I can only suggest you ask your AI friends about the benefits of socialising and its importance to human development, they can explain it to you in a way that might not make you defensive. Yes, accepting things you have no control over is a sign of maturity. Hiding in your room talking to your phone won't make the scary people outside disappear, you're going to have to deal with them someday.
  - Nathanba 1y ago
    This is a great example of what I'm talking about in regards to humans vs AI. First you misunderstand my comment, barely even responding to it, then you paint me as defensive even though I've been very open and the absolute opposite of defensive. It's actually you who is being defensive now, starting on a clear attack and painting me into some kind of scared recluse corner, somebody who supposedly can't even understand why socialising is important and telling me to go talk to my AI friends to figure it out. I mean you gave a great example of a toxic, hurt human ego here, showing the incredible value of AI friends in the future. Because who would choose such a type of conversation over an empathetic, kind AI that cares and understands what I typed? For example an AI would understand that I'm not just talking about a chatbox on a phone, I've clearly mentioned full robots and this is all a forward looking conversation about future AI which will have bodies and can interact like humans. There is going to be real competition for humans soon and I think people are overestimating the value of humans a lot.
    - kovek 1y ago
      Why are you socializing with humans on Hacker News right now?
      - rogerrogerr 1y ago
        Wait you’re _humans_?! I thought the AI had taken everyone’s jobs, surely it started with the HN commenter positions!
        jachee 1y ago
        <meme> Wait, you guys are getting paid? </meme>
    - drusenko 1y ago
      Your idea of there being competition for human relationships is super fascinating. In my own life, there are fun/easy relationships, and there are those which push me to think deeply and differently, for any number of reasons. In that vein, doesn’t “competition for relationships” necessarily breed egocentrism above all else? The winning relationship will give you what you want, but not what is necessarily true… In that vein, you might also consider that the commenters you’re replying to may be worth engaging intellectually with more deeply purely based on the fact that they’re presenting divergent views that are uncomfortable. Based on how we’ve designed AI to date and how you describe it in terms of optimizing for self enjoyment for each individual (and difficult to argue most will choose that for themselves), it’s hard to see a world where AI can push productive conflict the way humans can. Then again, I might just be a flawed human who doesn’t fully understand the point you are trying to make and is extrapolating from my own biases, flaws, experiences, and the limited sample size I have of your point of view.
- xg15 1y ago
  Your emotions for the AI are real, but the AI's emotions for you aren't.
  - CrimsonRain 1y ago
    why is electricity in your brain real? and fake in the AI?
    - AlecSchueler 1y ago
      The electricity in both things are real, and it's unkind to twist the words of the person you responded to that way. They specifically mentioned emotions, not electricity. An AI will be completely unaffected by anything said to it.
      - akoboldfrying 1y ago
        I think it's a legitimate question, because ultimately all brain activity is electrical and chemical signals. To say that some electrical signal objectively is or is not an emotion implies that there is some objective rule for deciding this -- but I'm not aware of any such rule, only longstanding conventions.
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
        jachee 1y ago
        AI isn’t programmed to have emotions. Merely to replicate a semblance of a simulacrum of said sensations. Regardless of your considerations for the electrical signals, the models are just tab-completion, ad infinitum.
        CrimsonRain 1y ago
        Your emotions are just a tab-completion to God/Creator/or whatever.
lunar-whitey 1y ago
No one here is going to help the parent poster by assuming a superior position and lecturing them. It is totally unproductive. I suspect they have been hearing statements like this their entire life. Everything I am reading here is consistent with the perspective of someone with a difference in ability (probably neurodevelopmental) that has experienced persistent social rejection as a result. People systematically fail to recognize or emphasize with this.
- AlecSchueler 1y ago
  I like how you made this point by taking a superior position and lecturing us all about it. The person I responded to seems like a lost cause, my response was more intended to sway other young people who might be reading along.
  - lunar-whitey 1y ago
    Thanks for admitting you are disingenuously harassing the parent poster for the benefit of whatever in-group you happen to find yourself in. I hope they come to understand what you are doing and do something productive with that knowledge. Are people like the parent poster not also real humans with real flaws? Do you really understand that yourself?

spencerflem 1y ago

This comment makes me so sad- I mean this genuinely, looking at your comment history its clear you've fallen into the far right rabbit hole, and this is what "catch you when you say something they don't like" means. No shade to you, there are hundred billion dollar campaigns waged to trap people in ideas like those that are designed to be isolating. But their goal is to push you away from friends and family and towards extremist beliefs. I emphasize with how it must feel to seem iced out and victimised, it sounds awful! but this is not a normal position to have and most people do not believe the humans around them are fake or gaslighting

socalgal2 1y ago
Your comment makes me sad, its clear you've fallen into the "blind left" rabbit hole. You take a comment like "catch you when you say something they don't like" means and assume they are "far right". On a spectrum of 1 to 10 where 1 is right and 10 is left. You can be at 6-7 and the people are 8-9-10 will shout your head off. This is a well documented issue in this day and age. Plenty of left thought leaders complaining about the ultra left.
- spencerflem 1y ago
  No offense, but if they're having so much trouble maintaining connections with the people around them that they believe that they have no more need for other humans altogether, something has gone wrong. The far right was from looking at their comment history and a little bit of reading between the lines. Maybe my read is wrong, but if you don't at least see the parent comment as a cry for help I don't know what to tell you. Its well documented that online people will scream their heads off because there's no relationship worth maintaining, everything is temporary, but IRL a much wider range is tolerated.
- achierius 1y ago
  Why are you going out of your way to defend "humans are unnecessary, we can self-actualize using only machines" as some sort of 'center-right' virtue? If anything I would hope and expect right-wingers to value human connection (quite the venerable tradition, mind you) even more than the left.

davis 1y ago

Man, you need to hang around different and good people if this is your world view.

tgmatt 1y ago
I don't know where these mythical "good people" are, but they have been few and far between in my experience. People _will_ let you down, people _will_ disappoint you, even the so-called "good" ones, even family. I don't have the same opinion of AI as the OP, I've never used it for anything other than questions that needed answering or work related stuff, and I don't think I could ever use it for personal things, but I agree that people overwhelmingly suck.
- jayd16 1y ago
  Family being human and letting you down is different than being out to get you. Family can certainly suck. It's the one group you don't get to pick, but I think people are generally good but flawed.
- cindyllm 1y ago
  [dead]

jama211 1y ago

This is a fairly unhinged take my friend.

teaearlgraycold 1y ago

Maybe talk with a therapist

jayd16 1y ago
This is getting down voted because it can be insulting on it's face but I think I agree. If you look at every relationship this way, it seems likely there is something to work through. Not everyone is out to get everyone else.
- teaearlgraycold 1y ago
  It was a sincere comment, not intended as “lol seek help”

HaZeust 1y ago

This outlook on life is a perilous endeavor. Eliminate lesser friends, curate your circle to find better ones, talk to a professional about your ill-advised beliefs on humanity at large. It's not an easy process, but it's a necessary one. Write it down, make a plan.

zwnow 1y ago
These "ill-advised beliefs" are extremely valid beliefs. Most humans are just ignorant and human history has shown that plenty of times. I admire people blind enough to see the good in humanity
- saltwatercowboy 1y ago
  Your attitude is sadly widespread in tech. I don't know if it's because of rejection, or fear, or something else, but we really are nothing more than the social world we live in. Substituting that for a theoretically perfect AI 'companion' is hollow and destructive. It's like watching the movie 'Her' and thinking - wow, that looks great.
  - zwnow 1y ago
    I dont use AI for social interaction, I'd feel like a loser if I did that. But I also have a lot of trust issues with regular humans as I got disappointed over and over again. Didn't try to connect with people for over 10 years now.
    - saltwatercowboy 1y ago
      Well, you seem nice enough to me.
      - mulmen 1y ago
        Is this sarcasm? Do you actually know the person you are replying to or are you just saying what you think they want or need to hear? How does this differentiate you from an LLM from the perspective of a reader?

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

jaco6 1y ago

[dead]

advael 1y ago

This view of social interaction seems symptomatic of internet socialization, specifically social media. Since engagement is often driven better by controversy, the overall incentives in that context make an experience like yours more likely. Similarly, LLM providers who offer a public-facing chat service tend to be incentivized to tune their models to foment addiction. While people can indeed treat each other awfully sometimes, I think you could benefit a lot from seeking out specifically in-person interactions, perhaps in a context with a shared activity that can take some of the edge off of direct interpersonal engagement

moosey 1y ago

This cynicism isn't useful. You speak about how everyone wants to use every word against you, but your generalizations about people make me believe that you are the one looking for some kind of failure. Listen, I don't know what kind of friends you are seeking, or what social groups you're in, and it's true that there are lots of people seeking power or to put others down. However, your statements fail basic logic and bias checks for in/out group bias, categorical error, inductive reasoning. To me, it sounds like you are judging humanity based on the interactions on Twitter. I assure you, the vast majority of humanity are nowhere close to the machiavellian narcissists you make them out to be. Then again, I don't spend my time seeking power, or trying to get people to follow my socially extreme views, like veganism. And yet, lots of people are these subjectively better humans that you describe. I say subjective because good, bad, evil... All labels, they're really just the fundamental attribution error. I recommend that you learn about categorical error and fundamental attribution error, and free yourself from the language that pushes us apart. That causes us to judge and hate.