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I think public discussion of whether you are having "enough" sex and "enough" babies to satisfy some oligarch or technocrat's vision of how the world should be,

I think public discussion of whether you are having "enough" sex and "enough" babies to satisfy some oligarch or technocrat's vision of how the world should be, while not specifically deterring people going out, contributes to a general gross vibe which I could imagine doesn't help people want to get out there and mingle. But I do think this is overstated. I have a small number of children and the main reason that we don't have more is that its incredibly expensive over the course of a lifetime to raise a child who isn't going to be some wage slave somewhere or worse, end up in poverty and treated like shit by the world. If our society was genuinely dedicated to allowing a slower pace of life and ensuring the unconditional dignity of human beings, we'd probably have more kids, but having more now feels like pitching them into the meat grinder.

billy99k 1y ago
The main discussion is on replacement rates. If this get too low, civilization eventually collapses. It's not really a 'vision' and more like the end of humanity.
- slt2021 1y ago
  no, it doesn't. With the labor productivity and automation, it is not obvious we need to maintain the current population, especially because the current social contract seems to be working class being exploited by oligarchs, while their taxes go fund boomers' retirement and overseas wars
  - AlecSchueler 1y ago
    And don't forget that the constant growth mentality is causing widespread ecocide which will almost certainly bring an end to society anyway.
  - pantalaimon 1y ago
    How is it supposed to work when every working age person has two retirees to support?
    - Modified3019 1y ago
      Probably like: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Kaelon https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Kaelon Just need to re-evaluate things once we hit post-scarcity.
      - jfyi 1y ago
        I think I would not like to perform the ättestupa.
    - slt2021 1y ago
      the Boomers need to pull themselves by their bootstraps (c)
- olddustytrail 1y ago
  This seems like a self correcting problem. In the past, women who didn't really want children didn't have a great deal of choice, particularly if they wanted to follow any kind of socially acceptable life. It was considered a failure to many if they didn't get a husband and children. Therefore there was no particular evolutionary pressure to select for women who actually had a strong biological urge to have children. But there is now, so after a few generations you end up with mostly those women having children, that genetically passed on desire becomes more prominent, and birth rates increase again. Until overpopulation becomes a new version of the problem people thought it would be previously.
  - lotsofpulp 1y ago
    That is not how evolution and natural selection works. >Therefore there was no particular evolutionary pressure to select for women who actually had a strong biological urge to have children. It is possible to that a biological disposition to have children sufficient to outweigh other factors do not emerge in a sufficient timespan.
- nathan_compton 1y ago
  This is as absurdly linear a vision of history as any traditional Marxist might conjure up. Society has a lot of feedback systems in place which make a total collapse sort of unusual. A slow down of technological progress while society re-allocates labor towards other ends seems like a much more reasonable outcome.

billy99k 1y ago

The main discussion is on replacement rates. If this get too low, civilization eventually collapses. It's not really a 'vision' and more like the end of humanity.

slt2021 1y ago
no, it doesn't. With the labor productivity and automation, it is not obvious we need to maintain the current population, especially because the current social contract seems to be working class being exploited by oligarchs, while their taxes go fund boomers' retirement and overseas wars
- AlecSchueler 1y ago
  And don't forget that the constant growth mentality is causing widespread ecocide which will almost certainly bring an end to society anyway.
- pantalaimon 1y ago
  How is it supposed to work when every working age person has two retirees to support?
  - Modified3019 1y ago
    Probably like: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Kaelon https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Kaelon Just need to re-evaluate things once we hit post-scarcity.
    - jfyi 1y ago
      I think I would not like to perform the ättestupa.
  - slt2021 1y ago
    the Boomers need to pull themselves by their bootstraps (c)
olddustytrail 1y ago
This seems like a self correcting problem. In the past, women who didn't really want children didn't have a great deal of choice, particularly if they wanted to follow any kind of socially acceptable life. It was considered a failure to many if they didn't get a husband and children. Therefore there was no particular evolutionary pressure to select for women who actually had a strong biological urge to have children. But there is now, so after a few generations you end up with mostly those women having children, that genetically passed on desire becomes more prominent, and birth rates increase again. Until overpopulation becomes a new version of the problem people thought it would be previously.
- lotsofpulp 1y ago
  That is not how evolution and natural selection works. >Therefore there was no particular evolutionary pressure to select for women who actually had a strong biological urge to have children. It is possible to that a biological disposition to have children sufficient to outweigh other factors do not emerge in a sufficient timespan.
nathan_compton 1y ago
This is as absurdly linear a vision of history as any traditional Marxist might conjure up. Society has a lot of feedback systems in place which make a total collapse sort of unusual. A slow down of technological progress while society re-allocates labor towards other ends seems like a much more reasonable outcome.