6 ms·

Ivermectin has a surprisingly interesting origin, it was discovered in soil near a Japanese golf course and developed from a bacterium that kills parasites. It

Ivermectin has a surprisingly interesting origin, it was discovered in soil near a Japanese golf course and developed from a bacterium that kills parasites. It went on to treat diseases like river blindness and became widely used in both human and veterinary medicine. Despite all that, it’s definitely not some miracle drug or cure-all like some would have you believe. Though that didn’t stop my grandpa from stockpiling it after watching too many Fox News ads.

andy_ppp 1y ago
[flagged]
- ImHereToVote 1y ago
  I believe it was a licensed MD who prescribed Ivermectin to him. It might be that we all have some parasites that worsen COVID immune reactions.
  - wat10000 1y ago
    What do you call someone who graduates last in their class in medical school? “Doctor.” There’s no shortage of credentialed quacks out there.
    - Calavar 1y ago
      It's not about lack of knowledge, it's greed. For doctors with flexible morals, garbage medicine is a shortcut to wealth. Since non evidence based treatments aren't covered by health insurance, these practices are cash only. And cash only = $$$ because the doctor is getting the full payment and not just a fraction of it. Dr. Oz is a good example. He was a CT surgeon at Columbia, which is considered the mecca for American CT surgery. But even if you are at the very top of your field as a doctor, there will be a cap on wealth, and you will never find fame. Oz gave up surgery, started hawking essential oils and is now very likely the only CT surgeon in the country with a net worth in the 9 figures.
  - bamboozled 1y ago
    Yet there was zero evidence to suggest it would work for COVID, and people like him going around saying it worked, or they had "good results", based on nothing. Then they caused a shortage of the drug in places it was needed. So he actually caused harm with his BS. I also got a fairly early strain of COVID and didn't have Ivermectin and I got over it pretty easily too? I just thought I pushed it too hard in the gym and felt a bit tired. My cousin got it, ended up in hospital on Oxygen. Joe Rogan is just a fool and a propagandist.
    - transcriptase 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - bamboozled 1y ago
        I didn't say the response was perfect and all advice was accurate, but neither is selling bullshit like Ivermectin for COVID with zero evidence it was effective. It's wild to suggest the best way to deal with the next pandemic is less science, less experts. No it's more science and more experts, that's what's required to solve the next pandemic and climate change, and super bugs and more. Your comment seems to suggest that we should throw away all knowledge and faith in institutions because the knowledge we had at the time of a very dynamic situation wasn't perfect or to your liking. It's painful to read honestly. Next pandemic, we should just try random off the shell treatments until we find something that sticks I guess. Screw the experts?
        transcriptase 1y ago
        No. Next time people like yourself should listen to what he actually said about certain topics versus what you were told he said by those with an axe to grind. Then you might temper your language and accusations of propaganda, or at least properly aim them in the opposite direction.
        bamboozled 1y ago
        Since 2016 I've listened to hundreds of hours of his podcast, maybe more. He is a useful idiot. At this point he has to know that, but continues doing what he does for the money. He is an entertainer and his show is entertaining, sure, but that is all it is. It's not factual, he does no journalism, he will repeat whatever nonsense suits his world view. I now listen to it just to see what kind of BS I should expect to find in my daily interactions with other "bros. If you think he is offering some kind of alternative view point to the MSM, you've just not realized he is the MSM. He is the "swamp".
  - smallerfish 1y ago
    Yes, and there are licensed MDs working for RFK specifically to demonize vaccines (while there are many other licensed MDs who see vaccines as being very positive and efficacious). A license doesn't make you right.
    - ImHereToVote 1y ago
      I would rather trust an MD over a rando on the Internet sorry.
      - kennywinker 1y ago
        Which licensed MD? If there are 100 licensed MDs telling you it’s BS, and 1 telling you it’s a miracle cure…
  - ujkhsjkdhf234 1y ago
    Get involved in sports and you'll learn you can find a crooked doctor to prescribe anything and I mean ANYTHING.
- ttoinou 1y ago
  Of course but the real question is how good the competition / alternative to Joe Rogan is. If he replaces MSM (all their lies and manipulation), then he’s better, even if he has low proof for what he talks about
  - kytazo 1y ago
    Why was this flagged?
    - kibwen 1y ago
      I didn't flag it, but possibly because it pretends that Joe Rogan doesn't count as "mainstream media" despite being extremely mainstream, or alternatively because it pretends that "mainstream media" is somehow inherently untrustworthy in a way that Joe Rogan is immune to despite his acknowledged detachment from reality.
      - ttoinou 1y ago
        New medias grow and become mainstream yes. You have to interpret each word in when they happened chronologically…
    - felixgallo 1y ago
      The false narrative that there's a 'mainstream media' which is lies and propaganda, as compared to plucky unafraid truth-telling upstarts like Fox and Sinclair and Joe Rogan.
  - kennywinker 1y ago
    Might makes right? Success in a media marketplace is not the same as quality, honesty, or integrity.
- transcriptase 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - andy_ppp 1y ago
    There’s zero evidence and many clinical trials showing ivermectin is not effective against COVID. I don’t watch CNN I just believe we should use the scientific method to figure things out not theories people post on YouTube.
  - awnird 1y ago
    Some Americans literally bought and consumed horse medicine because they thought it would cure covid. That’s not misinformation.
    - transcriptase 1y ago
      If Joe Rogan says he wears permethrin coated clothing to prevent Lyme disease by killing ticks and people go out and drink termite spray and lice shampoo because CNN said that’s what permethrin is and implied that’s how he uses it, who is spreading the misinformation?
- danans 1y ago
  > Yes, I really am always shocked by the Joe Rogans et. al. who spout off about random fad pharmaceuticals like this Why shocked? It seems quite normal since we live in an age where there is no accountability for spouting that stuff, and probably a major economic upside for the person spouting it. Snake oil has never had a bigger market than it has today, aided by the Internet as a platform.
draw_down 1y ago
[dead]
bamboozled 1y ago
Golf is awesome...I know that much for sure.
gus_massa 1y ago
> it’s definitely not some miracle drug or cure-all like some would have you believe I agree. Anyway, there is a nice post about Ivermectin in 2020 by Derek Lowe (In the Pipeline) https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/what-s-ivermectin https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/what-s-ivermectin the most relevant quotes are: > The drug is effective against a wide number of parasites and arthropods in general > Its ion-channel mechanism of action against parasites has no application to viruses.
- cryptoegorophy 1y ago
  It would’ve been very nice to show early in Covid the scale size of parasites vs viruses. Calling it a horse dewormer created the opposite, conspiracy effect.
  - sjsdaiuasgdia 1y ago
    "Well if it can kill that big ol' thing, surely it can absolutely destroy those microscopic bastards!" A whole lot of people will ignore or rationalize away evidence that disagrees with what they have already decided is true.
    - rolph 1y ago
      it really is gloomy to see one who now realizes how mistaken it is, and have to help them through the aftermath.
- amy_petrik 1y ago
  Alright let's stop toeing the propaganda line here. MOST drugs do different things. The most extreme example, one of the "dirtiest" drugs, is benadryl aka diphenhydramine, an over the counter common drug. It basically does something to every receptor some one. Its main use is anti-histamine, but people recreationally use it (cholingergic activity). Also many other neuronal receptors. The hypothesis here is "ivermectin works against parasites but is neutral to the human body LOL". If only. If only antibiotic or antiparastic were so simple. If only anything biological were so black and white. It's not as if one of the greatest classes of antibiotics now has a black box warning because it was found to cause people's tendons to snap suddenly. A simple pubmed search, "ivermectin" "inflammation" reveals the relevant mechanism, anti-inflammatory. In COVID it dampens the inflammation of the lungs, which is how COVID historically kills people - lungs fail and they go on a ventilator - fail from excess inflammation. So there's a viable mechanism. The position of medicine the whole way was "we can't prove ivermectin works" which is a valid position. That position also means - "we can't show ivermectin DOESN'T work" either, which seems to be how people are running with it. The armchair science here is, "LOL ivermectin doesn't work against viruses". Absolutely true, but not how it is meant to work. It's meant to kill the consequent inflammation. Why do we give people with upper respiratory infections steroids? Don't steroids weaken the immune system, the system meant to be clearing the infection? We give them to dampen upper respiratory inflammation, to make breathing possible, virus be damned. But it's harder to acquire steroids. Easier to acquire ivermectin. And so now a perfectly innocent drug is the scapegoat. Thankfully there are hundreds of other off-brand easily acquirable anti-inflammatories that will rise up like a hydra's head from the stigma of decapitated ivermectin If people are spouting off strong opinions about ivermectin and can't converse competently about all that i just said, whether they are pro-ivermectin or anti-ivermectin, then they are part of the problem.

andy_ppp 1y ago

[flagged]

ImHereToVote 1y ago
I believe it was a licensed MD who prescribed Ivermectin to him. It might be that we all have some parasites that worsen COVID immune reactions.
- wat10000 1y ago
  What do you call someone who graduates last in their class in medical school? “Doctor.” There’s no shortage of credentialed quacks out there.
  - Calavar 1y ago
    It's not about lack of knowledge, it's greed. For doctors with flexible morals, garbage medicine is a shortcut to wealth. Since non evidence based treatments aren't covered by health insurance, these practices are cash only. And cash only = $$$ because the doctor is getting the full payment and not just a fraction of it. Dr. Oz is a good example. He was a CT surgeon at Columbia, which is considered the mecca for American CT surgery. But even if you are at the very top of your field as a doctor, there will be a cap on wealth, and you will never find fame. Oz gave up surgery, started hawking essential oils and is now very likely the only CT surgeon in the country with a net worth in the 9 figures.
- bamboozled 1y ago
  Yet there was zero evidence to suggest it would work for COVID, and people like him going around saying it worked, or they had "good results", based on nothing. Then they caused a shortage of the drug in places it was needed. So he actually caused harm with his BS. I also got a fairly early strain of COVID and didn't have Ivermectin and I got over it pretty easily too? I just thought I pushed it too hard in the gym and felt a bit tired. My cousin got it, ended up in hospital on Oxygen. Joe Rogan is just a fool and a propagandist.
  - transcriptase 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - bamboozled 1y ago
      I didn't say the response was perfect and all advice was accurate, but neither is selling bullshit like Ivermectin for COVID with zero evidence it was effective. It's wild to suggest the best way to deal with the next pandemic is less science, less experts. No it's more science and more experts, that's what's required to solve the next pandemic and climate change, and super bugs and more. Your comment seems to suggest that we should throw away all knowledge and faith in institutions because the knowledge we had at the time of a very dynamic situation wasn't perfect or to your liking. It's painful to read honestly. Next pandemic, we should just try random off the shell treatments until we find something that sticks I guess. Screw the experts?
      - transcriptase 1y ago
        No. Next time people like yourself should listen to what he actually said about certain topics versus what you were told he said by those with an axe to grind. Then you might temper your language and accusations of propaganda, or at least properly aim them in the opposite direction.
        bamboozled 1y ago
        Since 2016 I've listened to hundreds of hours of his podcast, maybe more. He is a useful idiot. At this point he has to know that, but continues doing what he does for the money. He is an entertainer and his show is entertaining, sure, but that is all it is. It's not factual, he does no journalism, he will repeat whatever nonsense suits his world view. I now listen to it just to see what kind of BS I should expect to find in my daily interactions with other "bros. If you think he is offering some kind of alternative view point to the MSM, you've just not realized he is the MSM. He is the "swamp".
- smallerfish 1y ago
  Yes, and there are licensed MDs working for RFK specifically to demonize vaccines (while there are many other licensed MDs who see vaccines as being very positive and efficacious). A license doesn't make you right.
  - ImHereToVote 1y ago
    I would rather trust an MD over a rando on the Internet sorry.
    - kennywinker 1y ago
      Which licensed MD? If there are 100 licensed MDs telling you it’s BS, and 1 telling you it’s a miracle cure…
- ujkhsjkdhf234 1y ago
  Get involved in sports and you'll learn you can find a crooked doctor to prescribe anything and I mean ANYTHING.
ttoinou 1y ago
Of course but the real question is how good the competition / alternative to Joe Rogan is. If he replaces MSM (all their lies and manipulation), then he’s better, even if he has low proof for what he talks about
- kytazo 1y ago
  Why was this flagged?
  - kibwen 1y ago
    I didn't flag it, but possibly because it pretends that Joe Rogan doesn't count as "mainstream media" despite being extremely mainstream, or alternatively because it pretends that "mainstream media" is somehow inherently untrustworthy in a way that Joe Rogan is immune to despite his acknowledged detachment from reality.
    - ttoinou 1y ago
      New medias grow and become mainstream yes. You have to interpret each word in when they happened chronologically…
  - felixgallo 1y ago
    The false narrative that there's a 'mainstream media' which is lies and propaganda, as compared to plucky unafraid truth-telling upstarts like Fox and Sinclair and Joe Rogan.
- kennywinker 1y ago
  Might makes right? Success in a media marketplace is not the same as quality, honesty, or integrity.
transcriptase 1y ago
[flagged]
- andy_ppp 1y ago
  There’s zero evidence and many clinical trials showing ivermectin is not effective against COVID. I don’t watch CNN I just believe we should use the scientific method to figure things out not theories people post on YouTube.
- awnird 1y ago
  Some Americans literally bought and consumed horse medicine because they thought it would cure covid. That’s not misinformation.
  - transcriptase 1y ago
    If Joe Rogan says he wears permethrin coated clothing to prevent Lyme disease by killing ticks and people go out and drink termite spray and lice shampoo because CNN said that’s what permethrin is and implied that’s how he uses it, who is spreading the misinformation?
danans 1y ago
> Yes, I really am always shocked by the Joe Rogans et. al. who spout off about random fad pharmaceuticals like this Why shocked? It seems quite normal since we live in an age where there is no accountability for spouting that stuff, and probably a major economic upside for the person spouting it. Snake oil has never had a bigger market than it has today, aided by the Internet as a platform.

draw_down 1y ago

[dead]

bamboozled 1y ago

Golf is awesome...I know that much for sure.

gus_massa 1y ago

> it’s definitely not some miracle drug or cure-all like some would have you believe I agree. Anyway, there is a nice post about Ivermectin in 2020 by Derek Lowe (In the Pipeline) https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/what-s-ivermectin https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/what-s-ivermectin the most relevant quotes are: > The drug is effective against a wide number of parasites and arthropods in general > Its ion-channel mechanism of action against parasites has no application to viruses.

cryptoegorophy 1y ago
It would’ve been very nice to show early in Covid the scale size of parasites vs viruses. Calling it a horse dewormer created the opposite, conspiracy effect.
- sjsdaiuasgdia 1y ago
  "Well if it can kill that big ol' thing, surely it can absolutely destroy those microscopic bastards!" A whole lot of people will ignore or rationalize away evidence that disagrees with what they have already decided is true.
  - rolph 1y ago
    it really is gloomy to see one who now realizes how mistaken it is, and have to help them through the aftermath.
amy_petrik 1y ago
Alright let's stop toeing the propaganda line here. MOST drugs do different things. The most extreme example, one of the "dirtiest" drugs, is benadryl aka diphenhydramine, an over the counter common drug. It basically does something to every receptor some one. Its main use is anti-histamine, but people recreationally use it (cholingergic activity). Also many other neuronal receptors. The hypothesis here is "ivermectin works against parasites but is neutral to the human body LOL". If only. If only antibiotic or antiparastic were so simple. If only anything biological were so black and white. It's not as if one of the greatest classes of antibiotics now has a black box warning because it was found to cause people's tendons to snap suddenly. A simple pubmed search, "ivermectin" "inflammation" reveals the relevant mechanism, anti-inflammatory. In COVID it dampens the inflammation of the lungs, which is how COVID historically kills people - lungs fail and they go on a ventilator - fail from excess inflammation. So there's a viable mechanism. The position of medicine the whole way was "we can't prove ivermectin works" which is a valid position. That position also means - "we can't show ivermectin DOESN'T work" either, which seems to be how people are running with it. The armchair science here is, "LOL ivermectin doesn't work against viruses". Absolutely true, but not how it is meant to work. It's meant to kill the consequent inflammation. Why do we give people with upper respiratory infections steroids? Don't steroids weaken the immune system, the system meant to be clearing the infection? We give them to dampen upper respiratory inflammation, to make breathing possible, virus be damned. But it's harder to acquire steroids. Easier to acquire ivermectin. And so now a perfectly innocent drug is the scapegoat. Thankfully there are hundreds of other off-brand easily acquirable anti-inflammatories that will rise up like a hydra's head from the stigma of decapitated ivermectin If people are spouting off strong opinions about ivermectin and can't converse competently about all that i just said, whether they are pro-ivermectin or anti-ivermectin, then they are part of the problem.