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It is so amazing and wholesome to see a huge team of people come together and just collaborate on something they are passionate about and seriously believe in.

by Timwi 1y ago

It is so amazing and wholesome to see a huge team of people come together and just collaborate on something they are passionate about and seriously believe in. I'm very hopeful that Ladybird will get to the point where we can use it as a main browser.

net01 1y ago
Compile it yourself (it takes 15-20 minutes to fully compile) and test it on a website. Compare it to Firefox or Chrome and see what's wrong. Fix it and submit a PR. how to build ladybird https://github.com/LadybirdBrowser/ladybird/blob/master/Documentation/BuildInstructionsLadybird.md https://github.com/LadybirdBrowser/ladybird/blob/master/Docu...
- perching_aix 1y ago
  Why the commanding tone?
  - net01 1y ago
    English isn't my first language; sorry about that :)
    - newdee 1y ago
      Thank you for your helpful comment. I’m compiling it right now :)
    - Henchman21 1y ago
      Your English seemed perfect to me, including the tone. Some people wilt at the mere suggestion that they do something.
  - newdee 1y ago
    Why the tone policing? This isn’t helpful. Whereas parent comment was to the point and linked to a helpful resource. Give people the benefit of the doubt and assume good intent.
    - perching_aix 1y ago
      I did assume good intentions and even gave them the benefit of the doubt: that's why I asked them why they were using a commanding tone and said nothing else. They clarified that indeed, their intentions were good and so being rude and sounding commanding wasn't the intent, and that was the end of that. Why do you have to turn this into something bigger? It was a done topic. I also disagree that this isn't helpful. * For one, they're now aware that they come off as commanding when they write like this. They now know they should look up why that is (if they care), and how to alter their language accordingly. This should serve them well, since it makes their use of language more in line with their intentions, and prevents them from receiving rude / more involved meta responses from those who don't assume good intentions or aren't willing to hear them out like I did. It should also prevent them accidentally causing reputational harm to the projects and organizations they're trying to support this way. Second, since I kept it brief and minimal, I avoided other people asking about this not so nicely and not so straightforward. Could have turned into an ugly flamewar. Speaking of, I do not understand why some people have it so out for "tone policing". It feels like an overreaction, a grand backwards swing in response to supposed "moderation overreach / censorship". Admittedly very in vogue these days, but cultural standards exist for a reason. I refuse to be forced to decide between the two extremes of overpolicing and no policement at all. I do also appreciate the value of just letting moderation tools and moderators do their job, but I do still have some - increasingly faint - hope that with some people, communication is also a viable, or even the preferable way - as it was in this case. * And I further disagree that being helpful in terms of information content or effect would be mutually exclusive with all this, or would even be related. Helping alone doesn't make a helpful person, particularly if helping isn't their explicit intention.
- phito 1y ago
  You forgot the enormous learning curve of understanding how browsers work and how to write proper code in Ladybug that doesn't waste the maintainers´ time. Last time I tried, I couldn't find a website that worked with it. Where do you even begin contributing to such a large, complex, very much WIP project? The barrier to entry is daunting.
  - therein 1y ago
    >Last time I tried, I couldn't find a website that worked with it. That was the case for me last time I tried it as well, which was a few months ago. Tried it again yesterday and I could load many pages. Could even render complex real life pages like YouTube. I recommend anyone to build it themselves. It is a very simple and smooth experience.
    - phito 1y ago
      Amazing, going to try it again right now. I had also tried a few months ago.
  - saagarjha 1y ago
    Pick a site that almost works on it and then fix it to fully work?
  - barkingcat 1y ago
    When it comes to larger projects, first: - you don't need to understand the whole in order to help the kind of bugs you can start with are like : - this icon is a bit weird, it's off centre by 2px - how do I add 2 pixels to this icon? either by moving it or by changing the underlying image asset? if I'm moving it, what is the subroutine that paints it? if I'm changing the image asset itself, where is it stored? (is it in a packed store? or is it just a plain file, etc) - when I click this button, trace the pathway - it's supposed to add to history and turn blue. is it doing that? etc. For large projects, start super small and work your way out from there.
  - paddim8 1y ago
    You don't have to implement some big new feature. I found a layout rendering problem when I tested it on my own website and could quite easily go and fix it without having any prior experience with browser development.
- Timwi 1y ago
  I did actually watch a friend compile and run it, and we tried it on a couple of simple web pages and were impressed with the results! However, there are two barriers to me building it myself and submitting PRs. The first is that it's not officially supported to build or run on Windows, so I'd have to get familiar with WSL first or set up a dual-boot environment. The second is that it's written in the obsolete and unusable language of C++. I would have loved an opportunity here to get into Rust or something, but C++ has proven itself hazardous to my mental health, so I'm staying away from it.
  - robin_reala 1y ago
    There’s always the option of contributing to Servo if you’re interested in Rust and browser engineering.
  - 0points 1y ago
    Those are two you-problems.
  - skrebbel 1y ago
    > The second is that it's written in the obsolete and unusable language of C++. Oh come on. There's nicer ways to say "I'm not good at it". It's OK you know, you can't be good at everything. Just don't make it other people's fault.
    - tormeh 1y ago
      Nobody's good at C++. I've written C++ and even got to the point where I felt I had things under control, but tbh that's just delusion and hubris.
      - apelapan 1y ago
        If you look at it that way, nobody is good at anything. True perhaps but not a very useful stance. Millions of people have built meaningful software with C++ over the past several decades. It is everywhere and it mostly works OK. Of course, C++ is not necessarily the best choice for everything or anything. But it is a mostly reasonable choice for lots of things in 2025, just like it was in 1995.

by Timwi 1y ago

net01 1y ago

Compile it yourself (it takes 15-20 minutes to fully compile) and test it on a website. Compare it to Firefox or Chrome and see what's wrong. Fix it and submit a PR. how to build ladybird https://github.com/LadybirdBrowser/ladybird/blob/master/Documentation/BuildInstructionsLadybird.md https://github.com/LadybirdBrowser/ladybird/blob/master/Docu...

perching_aix 1y ago
Why the commanding tone?
- net01 1y ago
  English isn't my first language; sorry about that :)
  - newdee 1y ago
    Thank you for your helpful comment. I’m compiling it right now :)
  - Henchman21 1y ago
    Your English seemed perfect to me, including the tone. Some people wilt at the mere suggestion that they do something.
- newdee 1y ago
  Why the tone policing? This isn’t helpful. Whereas parent comment was to the point and linked to a helpful resource. Give people the benefit of the doubt and assume good intent.
  - perching_aix 1y ago
    I did assume good intentions and even gave them the benefit of the doubt: that's why I asked them why they were using a commanding tone and said nothing else. They clarified that indeed, their intentions were good and so being rude and sounding commanding wasn't the intent, and that was the end of that. Why do you have to turn this into something bigger? It was a done topic. I also disagree that this isn't helpful. * For one, they're now aware that they come off as commanding when they write like this. They now know they should look up why that is (if they care), and how to alter their language accordingly. This should serve them well, since it makes their use of language more in line with their intentions, and prevents them from receiving rude / more involved meta responses from those who don't assume good intentions or aren't willing to hear them out like I did. It should also prevent them accidentally causing reputational harm to the projects and organizations they're trying to support this way. Second, since I kept it brief and minimal, I avoided other people asking about this not so nicely and not so straightforward. Could have turned into an ugly flamewar. Speaking of, I do not understand why some people have it so out for "tone policing". It feels like an overreaction, a grand backwards swing in response to supposed "moderation overreach / censorship". Admittedly very in vogue these days, but cultural standards exist for a reason. I refuse to be forced to decide between the two extremes of overpolicing and no policement at all. I do also appreciate the value of just letting moderation tools and moderators do their job, but I do still have some - increasingly faint - hope that with some people, communication is also a viable, or even the preferable way - as it was in this case. * And I further disagree that being helpful in terms of information content or effect would be mutually exclusive with all this, or would even be related. Helping alone doesn't make a helpful person, particularly if helping isn't their explicit intention.
phito 1y ago
You forgot the enormous learning curve of understanding how browsers work and how to write proper code in Ladybug that doesn't waste the maintainers´ time. Last time I tried, I couldn't find a website that worked with it. Where do you even begin contributing to such a large, complex, very much WIP project? The barrier to entry is daunting.
- therein 1y ago
  >Last time I tried, I couldn't find a website that worked with it. That was the case for me last time I tried it as well, which was a few months ago. Tried it again yesterday and I could load many pages. Could even render complex real life pages like YouTube. I recommend anyone to build it themselves. It is a very simple and smooth experience.
  - phito 1y ago
    Amazing, going to try it again right now. I had also tried a few months ago.
- saagarjha 1y ago
  Pick a site that almost works on it and then fix it to fully work?
- barkingcat 1y ago
  When it comes to larger projects, first: - you don't need to understand the whole in order to help the kind of bugs you can start with are like : - this icon is a bit weird, it's off centre by 2px - how do I add 2 pixels to this icon? either by moving it or by changing the underlying image asset? if I'm moving it, what is the subroutine that paints it? if I'm changing the image asset itself, where is it stored? (is it in a packed store? or is it just a plain file, etc) - when I click this button, trace the pathway - it's supposed to add to history and turn blue. is it doing that? etc. For large projects, start super small and work your way out from there.
- paddim8 1y ago
  You don't have to implement some big new feature. I found a layout rendering problem when I tested it on my own website and could quite easily go and fix it without having any prior experience with browser development.
Timwi 1y ago
I did actually watch a friend compile and run it, and we tried it on a couple of simple web pages and were impressed with the results! However, there are two barriers to me building it myself and submitting PRs. The first is that it's not officially supported to build or run on Windows, so I'd have to get familiar with WSL first or set up a dual-boot environment. The second is that it's written in the obsolete and unusable language of C++. I would have loved an opportunity here to get into Rust or something, but C++ has proven itself hazardous to my mental health, so I'm staying away from it.
- robin_reala 1y ago
  There’s always the option of contributing to Servo if you’re interested in Rust and browser engineering.
- 0points 1y ago
  Those are two you-problems.
- skrebbel 1y ago
  > The second is that it's written in the obsolete and unusable language of C++. Oh come on. There's nicer ways to say "I'm not good at it". It's OK you know, you can't be good at everything. Just don't make it other people's fault.
  - tormeh 1y ago
    Nobody's good at C++. I've written C++ and even got to the point where I felt I had things under control, but tbh that's just delusion and hubris.
    - apelapan 1y ago
      If you look at it that way, nobody is good at anything. True perhaps but not a very useful stance. Millions of people have built meaningful software with C++ over the past several decades. It is everywhere and it mostly works OK. Of course, C++ is not necessarily the best choice for everything or anything. But it is a mostly reasonable choice for lots of things in 2025, just like it was in 1995.