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> online world should be so different to the physical world If you take a step back, they are _very_ different, in myriad ways. But to answer your question ver

> online world should be so different to the physical world If you take a step back, they are _very_ different, in myriad ways. But to answer your question very concretely: because we're turning the web into a "Paper's Please" scenario and the analogy with "I'm 12 but I can't walk into this smoke shop" doesn't hold. I shared a story on HN that didn't take off about how Google is now scanning _all_ YouTube accounts with AI, and if their AI thinks you're underage, your only recourse after the "kid limit" your account is to submit a government-issued ID to get your account back. This has nothing to do with buying cigarettes and alcohol. This is about identifying everyone online (which advertisers would be thrilled about), and censoring speech. In short, the mechanisms being used online are significantly more intrusive than anything in the real world. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44740409 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44740409

CJefferson 1y ago
I'm happy to discuss they are very different, and I agree the current systems (in the UK in particular), are awful. However, I think tech people risk losing this battle by saying (it seems to me, and in the post I originally replied to) "any attempt at any age checking on the internet is basically 1984", rather than "we need some way of checking some things, keeping people's privacy safe, this current system is awful." Of course, if some people believe the internet should be 100% uncensored, no restrictions, they can have that viewpoint. But honestly, I don't agree.
- rpdillon 1y ago
  I'm a huge proponent of legislation that requires sites so send a header that indicates they are serving adult content in that request. I'm also a huge proponent of basic endpoint security that allows a parent to put the device into a mode that checks for those headers and blocks the response. This doesn't require any of the draconian 1984 measures that folks are insisting upon. The problem is there is no real incentive to implement true age-verification in this manner (this is why nobody has deployed ZKP), but rather to identify everyone. So while it would be ultra easy to imagine an onboarding scenario during device setup that asks: 1. Will this device be assigned to a child? 2. Supply the age so we can track when they cross over 18 3. Automatically reject responses with the adult header and lock down this setting But Google and Apple won't do that, because they don't care, and the politicians won't bake it into their laws, because they don't are either: their goal is to alter culture, and protecting children is just an excuse.

CJefferson 1y ago

I'm happy to discuss they are very different, and I agree the current systems (in the UK in particular), are awful. However, I think tech people risk losing this battle by saying (it seems to me, and in the post I originally replied to) "any attempt at any age checking on the internet is basically 1984", rather than "we need some way of checking some things, keeping people's privacy safe, this current system is awful." Of course, if some people believe the internet should be 100% uncensored, no restrictions, they can have that viewpoint. But honestly, I don't agree.

rpdillon 1y ago
I'm a huge proponent of legislation that requires sites so send a header that indicates they are serving adult content in that request. I'm also a huge proponent of basic endpoint security that allows a parent to put the device into a mode that checks for those headers and blocks the response. This doesn't require any of the draconian 1984 measures that folks are insisting upon. The problem is there is no real incentive to implement true age-verification in this manner (this is why nobody has deployed ZKP), but rather to identify everyone. So while it would be ultra easy to imagine an onboarding scenario during device setup that asks: 1. Will this device be assigned to a child? 2. Supply the age so we can track when they cross over 18 3. Automatically reject responses with the adult header and lock down this setting But Google and Apple won't do that, because they don't care, and the politicians won't bake it into their laws, because they don't are either: their goal is to alter culture, and protecting children is just an excuse.