21 ms·

What's going to be interesting is when the next Democratic administration comes into power, they're going to be extremely anti-Israel, given that the Democratic

by vFunct 1y ago

What's going to be interesting is when the next Democratic administration comes into power, they're going to be extremely anti-Israel, given that the Democratic base is fully against Israel now at a 5:1 ratio. There will never be another Democratic President that supports Israel (none of the pro-israel candidates have any hope of ever being President) and this will mean extremely hard anti-Israeli action, using precedent like this to push anti-Islamophobia messages. You can imagine the next Democrat administration defunding universities based on their collaboration with Israel, for example. Or defunding universities based on their punishment of pro-Palestinian demonstrators, etc.. People should accept that Israel lost against Hamas and be prepared for the consequences of that going forward. It's pretty much the same as a Vietnam situation, with the war being won/lost based on public opinion.

soulofmischief 1y ago
Haha, that's funny. What'll really happen is they'll campaign and say one thing, then do another once in office, maintaining status quo for the elite and war machine as they've been doing for decades in tandem with the Republican party, gaslighting the American public at every level.
Hikikomori 1y ago
The party largely fully supports Israel.
- wiz21c 1y ago
  I live in Europe and according the common media outlets, the US absolutely, totally, forever support Israel. "largely" is too weak of a word here. And now honnest question: why is this support so strong in the US ? are the ties with the jewish/israely community so deep between these two peoples ?
  - twixfel 1y ago
    The only country the Americans love and worship more than their own country is Israel. I can understand brain dead nationalism for your own country, but brain dead nationalism for another country, especially one doing the things Israel is doing... it's very strange.
    - sjsdaiuasgdia 1y ago
      There's at least a few factors in play... Christian sects that believe the second coming of Jesus is not too far away believe that Israel's existence is critical to bring that to pass. People with anti-muslim or anti-arabian feelings see Israel as a counterweight to muslim and arabian power in the middle east. There's a lot of people who, consciously or not, equate anything other than total support for Israel with antisemitism.
  - cmrdporcupine 1y ago
    The real story here is the way Zionism has so deeply and intensely and succesffully managed to tie Jewishness to Israel-iness. And so many people who are rightfully proud of their Jewish ethnicity and cultural identification -- a rich and beautiful culture that has had absolutely outsized contributions to art, science, culture in the west, with a history of being persecuted and mistreated by said "west" -- have become defacto "citizens-abroad" and advocates for Israeli positions in all things. That combined with a deep and historical distrust of Islam in western culture... It's the same story here in Canada. How deep the bank account for this blank cheque is, I don't know. I should say that as a left wing critic of what happens in the middle east under Israel's banner, I am also deeply uncomfortable with some of the anti-Semitic tinge some forms of the protest take. It's a conundrum. It is absolutely important to make it clear the criticism is of the actions of Israel, and not "Jews"
  - kj4211cash 1y ago
    You and the other replies focus too much on the Jewish community within the US. Support for Israel is very strong in the US, particularly among Republicans, because of the rise of Evangelical Christians. Evangelicals have ... religious reasons for supporting of Israel. They also strongly identify with Europe and people with European backgrounds. They have an inability to identify with Palestinians.
    - Hikikomori 1y ago
      When it comes to the democratic parties loyalty to Israel I think it's mostly the work of AIPAC that is responsible.
      - kj4211cash 1y ago
        There's some truth to this but it's also an anti-semitic trope. There are a whole bunch of Jewish people on the Left that don't support the current Israeli regime.
  - Hikikomori 1y ago
    Largely as we have people like AOC, Ilhan and Bernie. Maybe a stretch to say they're part of the party.
nyeah 1y ago
The Democratic party supports Israel just fine. The party is not run by weirdo academics who can't even remember the Hamas attacks. The worst that serious Democrats might do is publicly compare Israel's current behavior to the US's lashing out at Afghanistan after the WTC attacks.
- vFunct 1y ago
  The Democratic Party doesn't support Israel at all. The current elected officials do, but not the base. Polls show support for Palestine over Israel at a 5:1 ratio. This is resulting in current Democratic elected officials being removed from power when their term expires, starting with the US Presidency last year, which was lost BECAUSE of their support for Israel. A YouGov poll earlier this year showed the primary reason Biden 2020 voters didn't vote for Harris was because of Israel: https://www.imeupolicyproject.org/postelection-polling https://www.imeupolicyproject.org/postelection-polling This is all happening quickly. You won't see any Democratic candidate that supports Israel run for President in 2028.
  - nyeah 1y ago
    Sorry, that is a mix of speculative fiction and self-contradiction. The GOP supports Israel at least as strongly as the Democrats do. So how did Harris' support for Israel cost her the election? Supporting Israel, including acknowledging their right to respond militarily to terrorist attacks, is one thing. Falling deeply in love with Netanyahu's current policies is another. Freaking out and caring only about Hamas is ... a third thing.
    - te_chris 1y ago
      Trump got less votes last time than when he lost to Biden. The democrats lost, trump didn’t win. People stayed home.
      - nyeah 1y ago
        Good point. I'm not convinced that support for Israel was the issue, though. There are lunatics in the US who seem to have completely forgotten the 1300-1400 Israelis killed by Hamas just last year, but who can see the human disaster in Gaza. I don't think those people are so politically engaged on that single issue that they deliberately stayed home from the polls and let Trump win ... in order to ... help people in Gaza? I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem to fit together. EDIT: To be fair those same folks are notorious for shooting themselves in the foot. So who knows? EDIT 2: Some of the lunatics above are probably anti-Semitic, despite Trump's claims that they are anti-Semitic. But again how does that drive them to help Trump right now?
hermitcrab 1y ago
>People should accept that Israel lost against Hamas It looks to me that the extremists in Hamas gave extremist Israelis the excuse to do what they always wanted to do. And everyone who isn't an extremist lost. Meanwhile, the Hamas leadership are living in 5 star luxury in Qatar.

by vFunct 1y ago

soulofmischief 1y ago

Haha, that's funny. What'll really happen is they'll campaign and say one thing, then do another once in office, maintaining status quo for the elite and war machine as they've been doing for decades in tandem with the Republican party, gaslighting the American public at every level.

Hikikomori 1y ago

The party largely fully supports Israel.

wiz21c 1y ago
I live in Europe and according the common media outlets, the US absolutely, totally, forever support Israel. "largely" is too weak of a word here. And now honnest question: why is this support so strong in the US ? are the ties with the jewish/israely community so deep between these two peoples ?
- twixfel 1y ago
  The only country the Americans love and worship more than their own country is Israel. I can understand brain dead nationalism for your own country, but brain dead nationalism for another country, especially one doing the things Israel is doing... it's very strange.
  - sjsdaiuasgdia 1y ago
    There's at least a few factors in play... Christian sects that believe the second coming of Jesus is not too far away believe that Israel's existence is critical to bring that to pass. People with anti-muslim or anti-arabian feelings see Israel as a counterweight to muslim and arabian power in the middle east. There's a lot of people who, consciously or not, equate anything other than total support for Israel with antisemitism.
- cmrdporcupine 1y ago
  The real story here is the way Zionism has so deeply and intensely and succesffully managed to tie Jewishness to Israel-iness. And so many people who are rightfully proud of their Jewish ethnicity and cultural identification -- a rich and beautiful culture that has had absolutely outsized contributions to art, science, culture in the west, with a history of being persecuted and mistreated by said "west" -- have become defacto "citizens-abroad" and advocates for Israeli positions in all things. That combined with a deep and historical distrust of Islam in western culture... It's the same story here in Canada. How deep the bank account for this blank cheque is, I don't know. I should say that as a left wing critic of what happens in the middle east under Israel's banner, I am also deeply uncomfortable with some of the anti-Semitic tinge some forms of the protest take. It's a conundrum. It is absolutely important to make it clear the criticism is of the actions of Israel, and not "Jews"
- kj4211cash 1y ago
  You and the other replies focus too much on the Jewish community within the US. Support for Israel is very strong in the US, particularly among Republicans, because of the rise of Evangelical Christians. Evangelicals have ... religious reasons for supporting of Israel. They also strongly identify with Europe and people with European backgrounds. They have an inability to identify with Palestinians.
  - Hikikomori 1y ago
    When it comes to the democratic parties loyalty to Israel I think it's mostly the work of AIPAC that is responsible.
    - kj4211cash 1y ago
      There's some truth to this but it's also an anti-semitic trope. There are a whole bunch of Jewish people on the Left that don't support the current Israeli regime.
- Hikikomori 1y ago
  Largely as we have people like AOC, Ilhan and Bernie. Maybe a stretch to say they're part of the party.

nyeah 1y ago

The Democratic party supports Israel just fine. The party is not run by weirdo academics who can't even remember the Hamas attacks. The worst that serious Democrats might do is publicly compare Israel's current behavior to the US's lashing out at Afghanistan after the WTC attacks.

vFunct 1y ago
The Democratic Party doesn't support Israel at all. The current elected officials do, but not the base. Polls show support for Palestine over Israel at a 5:1 ratio. This is resulting in current Democratic elected officials being removed from power when their term expires, starting with the US Presidency last year, which was lost BECAUSE of their support for Israel. A YouGov poll earlier this year showed the primary reason Biden 2020 voters didn't vote for Harris was because of Israel: https://www.imeupolicyproject.org/postelection-polling https://www.imeupolicyproject.org/postelection-polling This is all happening quickly. You won't see any Democratic candidate that supports Israel run for President in 2028.
- nyeah 1y ago
  Sorry, that is a mix of speculative fiction and self-contradiction. The GOP supports Israel at least as strongly as the Democrats do. So how did Harris' support for Israel cost her the election? Supporting Israel, including acknowledging their right to respond militarily to terrorist attacks, is one thing. Falling deeply in love with Netanyahu's current policies is another. Freaking out and caring only about Hamas is ... a third thing.
  - te_chris 1y ago
    Trump got less votes last time than when he lost to Biden. The democrats lost, trump didn’t win. People stayed home.
    - nyeah 1y ago
      Good point. I'm not convinced that support for Israel was the issue, though. There are lunatics in the US who seem to have completely forgotten the 1300-1400 Israelis killed by Hamas just last year, but who can see the human disaster in Gaza. I don't think those people are so politically engaged on that single issue that they deliberately stayed home from the polls and let Trump win ... in order to ... help people in Gaza? I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem to fit together. EDIT: To be fair those same folks are notorious for shooting themselves in the foot. So who knows? EDIT 2: Some of the lunatics above are probably anti-Semitic, despite Trump's claims that they are anti-Semitic. But again how does that drive them to help Trump right now?

hermitcrab 1y ago

>People should accept that Israel lost against Hamas It looks to me that the extremists in Hamas gave extremist Israelis the excuse to do what they always wanted to do. And everyone who isn't an extremist lost. Meanwhile, the Hamas leadership are living in 5 star luxury in Qatar.