8 ms·

Yet the author incorrectly blames it on tmux, which gives the article a bad taste. Also im not sure whether the scolling problem is actually tmux fault. Tmux u

Yet the author incorrectly blames it on tmux, which gives the article a bad taste. Also im not sure whether the scolling problem is actually tmux fault. Tmux uses the alternate screen buffer, the alternate screen buffer is activated using the smcup/rmcup terminfo capabilities, whose semantics actually say that it "fixes" the window viewport in-place so absolute cursor movement has a known zero position. In this state, any native scrolling attempt should have no effect, and the keypress/scroll wheel events should be forwarded to tmux directly. For some reason, every other terminal emulator still allows local scrolling in the alternate screen, which kinda breaks the semantics of smcup/rmcup and easy scrolling in tmux, too.

aragilar 1y ago
Sadly after experimenting with a bunch of "modern" terminals I'm forced to consider that their primary audience is more interest in ricing than actually implementing the terminal commands (or connecting to anything other than their favourite linux box) and so I'm stuck with xterm as the only reliable terminal emulator that won't occasionally spew unreadable junk.
- sgarland 1y ago
  Have you tried Ghostty? Its creator has been pretty serious about getting everything right.
  - nomad41 1y ago
    I tried it a few months ago and it didn’t even have a way to search terminal output.
    - metaltyphoon 1y ago
      That's the most annoying part of ghostty at the moment. I have no idea why it isn't a priority :( https://github.com/ghostty-org/ghostty/issues/189 https://github.com/ghostty-org/ghostty/issues/189
      - tristan957 1y ago
        Because Mitchell doesn't use terminal search, and neither do most of the maintainers.
        metaltyphoon 1y ago
        How is this even possible? Just pipe result from a command into a file and open in vim and search it that way? Perhaps use Neovim's built in terminal where you can search at will? I find it hard to believe that "I don't ever search" is a thing.
        wredcoll 1y ago
        He probably uses tmux which has features for all of those things, why should the terminal re-implement them?
        metaltyphoon 1y ago
        He gave an interview on YouTube, which contradicts this. https://youtu.be/o-qtso47ECk?si=6gWzcL9-69Njd8jq https://youtu.be/o-qtso47ECk?si=6gWzcL9-69Njd8jq
        wredcoll 1y ago
        Well, I am perplexed then. It does kinda sound like he's trying to reinvent X11.
        meepmorp 1y ago
        I don't think I've ever intentionally used the scroll back search in iterm2 and deliberately disabled the shortcut for it because I kept triggering it by accident. I don't understand wanting or needing it, at all.
        shiomiru 1y ago
        That's what pagers are for (e.g. less.)
  - udev4096 1y ago
    Oh yes, using a new terminal emulator instead of one which has been around for decades. What could go wrong? It's creator has been vocal that it's nothing more than a side project
    - sarlalian 1y ago
      That’s underselling the community around it. Most subsystems have dedicated maintainers at this point, and it’s improving at a reasonable rate. It’s just new and new tools don’t have the full set of features of older tools. I’m assuming based on your dismissal of people using a new terminal emulator instead of one which has been around for decades, that you don’t want any time or effort invested in new tools.
  - GuinansEyebrows 1y ago
    ironically, the last time i tried it in my normal workflow, it refused to interpret certain escape sequences... to the terraform cli application. i couldn't finish a `terraform apply` - i'd type `y` and hit enter but it would just print `^M`.
  - aragilar 1y ago
    I asked what test suite they used to ensure they had the correct behaviour, and they were fairly dismissive, so I'm not sure what you're basing that on. I think they're far more interested in a specific set of features than getting things right.
    - sarlalian 1y ago
      Or they have experience as open source maintainers, and don’t really answer questions that you can find out for yourself if you look at the github repo.
      - aragilar 1y ago
        I did look, hence the question, and the response I got was sufficient to tell me what I needed to know.
- t_mahmood 1y ago
  And, actually having terminals crush. It is kind of absurd to have a terminal crush. I've tried Wezterm Ghoatty Ptyxis First two had some frequent crushes, ptyxis is quiet reliable, but I felt it consumes too much memory for a terminal. But I feel it's a good terminal. Though I wish I could get rid of the headerbar
  - Modified3019 1y ago
    What is “terminal crush”? I’ve not heard of this before.
    - rstupek 1y ago
      I think he's referring to being married to or "crush" on the terminal you use
    - partdavid 1y ago
      I'm assuming "crash"--it's a mild malapropism based on some varieties of English phonetics that I've seen before.
    - t_mahmood 1y ago
      Oh, my bad he he, as other corrected
  - elzbardico 1y ago
    you mean "crash"? But who I am to judge if you have a crush on a terminal, some of them are really beautiful in their minimalism. :-D
    - t_mahmood 1y ago
      Ah, terminals ARE really nice, aren't they? Fast and efficient. Can't say that for too many apps. Nevertheless, yeah, I meant crashing, All these years of gnome terminal, Tilix I never had them crashing.

aragilar 1y ago

Sadly after experimenting with a bunch of "modern" terminals I'm forced to consider that their primary audience is more interest in ricing than actually implementing the terminal commands (or connecting to anything other than their favourite linux box) and so I'm stuck with xterm as the only reliable terminal emulator that won't occasionally spew unreadable junk.

sgarland 1y ago
Have you tried Ghostty? Its creator has been pretty serious about getting everything right.
- nomad41 1y ago
  I tried it a few months ago and it didn’t even have a way to search terminal output.
  - metaltyphoon 1y ago
    That's the most annoying part of ghostty at the moment. I have no idea why it isn't a priority :( https://github.com/ghostty-org/ghostty/issues/189 https://github.com/ghostty-org/ghostty/issues/189
    - tristan957 1y ago
      Because Mitchell doesn't use terminal search, and neither do most of the maintainers.
      - metaltyphoon 1y ago
        How is this even possible? Just pipe result from a command into a file and open in vim and search it that way? Perhaps use Neovim's built in terminal where you can search at will? I find it hard to believe that "I don't ever search" is a thing.
        wredcoll 1y ago
        He probably uses tmux which has features for all of those things, why should the terminal re-implement them?
        metaltyphoon 1y ago
        He gave an interview on YouTube, which contradicts this. https://youtu.be/o-qtso47ECk?si=6gWzcL9-69Njd8jq https://youtu.be/o-qtso47ECk?si=6gWzcL9-69Njd8jq
        wredcoll 1y ago
        Well, I am perplexed then. It does kinda sound like he's trying to reinvent X11.
        meepmorp 1y ago
        I don't think I've ever intentionally used the scroll back search in iterm2 and deliberately disabled the shortcut for it because I kept triggering it by accident. I don't understand wanting or needing it, at all.
        shiomiru 1y ago
        That's what pagers are for (e.g. less.)
- udev4096 1y ago
  Oh yes, using a new terminal emulator instead of one which has been around for decades. What could go wrong? It's creator has been vocal that it's nothing more than a side project
  - sarlalian 1y ago
    That’s underselling the community around it. Most subsystems have dedicated maintainers at this point, and it’s improving at a reasonable rate. It’s just new and new tools don’t have the full set of features of older tools. I’m assuming based on your dismissal of people using a new terminal emulator instead of one which has been around for decades, that you don’t want any time or effort invested in new tools.
- GuinansEyebrows 1y ago
  ironically, the last time i tried it in my normal workflow, it refused to interpret certain escape sequences... to the terraform cli application. i couldn't finish a `terraform apply` - i'd type `y` and hit enter but it would just print `^M`.
- aragilar 1y ago
  I asked what test suite they used to ensure they had the correct behaviour, and they were fairly dismissive, so I'm not sure what you're basing that on. I think they're far more interested in a specific set of features than getting things right.
  - sarlalian 1y ago
    Or they have experience as open source maintainers, and don’t really answer questions that you can find out for yourself if you look at the github repo.
    - aragilar 1y ago
      I did look, hence the question, and the response I got was sufficient to tell me what I needed to know.
t_mahmood 1y ago
And, actually having terminals crush. It is kind of absurd to have a terminal crush. I've tried Wezterm Ghoatty Ptyxis First two had some frequent crushes, ptyxis is quiet reliable, but I felt it consumes too much memory for a terminal. But I feel it's a good terminal. Though I wish I could get rid of the headerbar
- Modified3019 1y ago
  What is “terminal crush”? I’ve not heard of this before.
  - rstupek 1y ago
    I think he's referring to being married to or "crush" on the terminal you use
  - partdavid 1y ago
    I'm assuming "crash"--it's a mild malapropism based on some varieties of English phonetics that I've seen before.
  - t_mahmood 1y ago
    Oh, my bad he he, as other corrected
- elzbardico 1y ago
  you mean "crash"? But who I am to judge if you have a crush on a terminal, some of them are really beautiful in their minimalism. :-D
  - t_mahmood 1y ago
    Ah, terminals ARE really nice, aren't they? Fast and efficient. Can't say that for too many apps. Nevertheless, yeah, I meant crashing, All these years of gnome terminal, Tilix I never had them crashing.