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I think a key piece of context to Kovid's distain of tmux is how good window management is in kitty. I regularly have at least ten terminals open and navigating

I think a key piece of context to Kovid's distain of tmux is how good window management is in kitty. I regularly have at least ten terminals open and navigating them is a breeze. I previously lived in tmux but much prefer this. The session persistence thing is still best solved with tmux, however, I don't ever need this. Nohup is sufficient for long running commands where my ssh might fail. I don't really find myself sshing into a machine and then setting loads of env vars that I need to persist.

gchamonlive 1y ago
For long running sessions I think screen is better... `nohup cmd &` is finnicky and I don't trust it to work on every software. I think `screen -S foo` and `screen -r foo` is much more ergonomic. No pipe to file, no disowned pid.
jon-wood 1y ago
More generally I use a tiling window manager which is already doing pane/tab layout for me, but doing that with every window I have, so I don't really want tmux acting as a separate window manager just for shells.
em-bee 1y ago
i tried using kitty a year ago. i was not impressed: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40478732 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40478732 kovid is talking about how tmux gets in the way of terminals adding new features. i agree with that, but what about the features that tmux offers that i have yet to see in any gui terminal. (multiple sessions. the ability to connect to the same session from multiple terminals. scriptability, including sending characters into a terminal. splitting windows into multiple panes...) can kitty do any of those? if you want to add features to the terminal, then you have to content that tmux does as well, and maybe tmux features are more interesting to me than kittys. so if you want to win me over, then you have to actually implement some of the features of tmux that i use. (watching the interview, it looks like kitty does indeed implement some of tmux features, because interestingly the interviewer asks just the right questions. but i need to look for a more comprehensive introduction to see how kitty can replace tmux locally.)
- metaltyphoon 1y ago
  It seems that WezTerm can do what you asked
  - em-bee 1y ago
    all right, a year ago i tried kitty: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40478732 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40478732 maybe it's time to try wezterm now: first impression: dark background. no good. i want light. no gui to change. now where is that theme setting? ah, here: https://wezterm.org/config/appearance.html https://wezterm.org/config/appearance.html there are 1000 color schemes available! wut? ok, this seems to be all i am looking for: https://wezterm.org/config/lua/wezterm.gui/get_appearance.html https://wezterm.org/config/lua/wezterm.gui/get_appearance.ht... gee, that's a lot of code for a single setting. ok, that's better. now let's explore how wezterm handles sessions and windows/tabs. it seems sessions would be domains, and so for a bunch of local sessions i need to configure some unix domains: https://wezterm.org/multiplexing.html#unix-domains https://wezterm.org/multiplexing.html#unix-domains there is more about sessions here: https://wezterm.org/recipes/workspaces.html https://wezterm.org/recipes/workspaces.html but it's all very abstract. and where does this stuff go? ah, here: https://wezterm.org/config/files.html https://wezterm.org/config/files.html turns out that the config example for the color scheme conflicts with setting other config values. i need config.color_scheme = ... return config not return { color_scheme = ... } that could have been explained better. and finally, how do i switch sessions or tabs? no word about that on the multiplex page. or elsewhere. fortunately, i found this article which describe an elaborate setup to make wezterm behave somewhat like tmux, with familiar keybindings. maybe i can get this to work: https://mwop.net/blog/2024-07-04-how-i-use-wezterm.html https://mwop.net/blog/2024-07-04-how-i-use-wezterm.html oh, one last issue: there are no resize handles, or a titlebar, although according to the descriptions they should be there. where did they go?
    - metaltyphoon 1y ago
      Hahahaha this was a fun read ;)
    - 1y ago

gchamonlive 1y ago

For long running sessions I think screen is better... `nohup cmd &` is finnicky and I don't trust it to work on every software. I think `screen -S foo` and `screen -r foo` is much more ergonomic. No pipe to file, no disowned pid.

jon-wood 1y ago

More generally I use a tiling window manager which is already doing pane/tab layout for me, but doing that with every window I have, so I don't really want tmux acting as a separate window manager just for shells.

em-bee 1y ago

i tried using kitty a year ago. i was not impressed: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40478732 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40478732 kovid is talking about how tmux gets in the way of terminals adding new features. i agree with that, but what about the features that tmux offers that i have yet to see in any gui terminal. (multiple sessions. the ability to connect to the same session from multiple terminals. scriptability, including sending characters into a terminal. splitting windows into multiple panes...) can kitty do any of those? if you want to add features to the terminal, then you have to content that tmux does as well, and maybe tmux features are more interesting to me than kittys. so if you want to win me over, then you have to actually implement some of the features of tmux that i use. (watching the interview, it looks like kitty does indeed implement some of tmux features, because interestingly the interviewer asks just the right questions. but i need to look for a more comprehensive introduction to see how kitty can replace tmux locally.)

metaltyphoon 1y ago
It seems that WezTerm can do what you asked
- em-bee 1y ago
  all right, a year ago i tried kitty: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40478732 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40478732 maybe it's time to try wezterm now: first impression: dark background. no good. i want light. no gui to change. now where is that theme setting? ah, here: https://wezterm.org/config/appearance.html https://wezterm.org/config/appearance.html there are 1000 color schemes available! wut? ok, this seems to be all i am looking for: https://wezterm.org/config/lua/wezterm.gui/get_appearance.html https://wezterm.org/config/lua/wezterm.gui/get_appearance.ht... gee, that's a lot of code for a single setting. ok, that's better. now let's explore how wezterm handles sessions and windows/tabs. it seems sessions would be domains, and so for a bunch of local sessions i need to configure some unix domains: https://wezterm.org/multiplexing.html#unix-domains https://wezterm.org/multiplexing.html#unix-domains there is more about sessions here: https://wezterm.org/recipes/workspaces.html https://wezterm.org/recipes/workspaces.html but it's all very abstract. and where does this stuff go? ah, here: https://wezterm.org/config/files.html https://wezterm.org/config/files.html turns out that the config example for the color scheme conflicts with setting other config values. i need config.color_scheme = ... return config not return { color_scheme = ... } that could have been explained better. and finally, how do i switch sessions or tabs? no word about that on the multiplex page. or elsewhere. fortunately, i found this article which describe an elaborate setup to make wezterm behave somewhat like tmux, with familiar keybindings. maybe i can get this to work: https://mwop.net/blog/2024-07-04-how-i-use-wezterm.html https://mwop.net/blog/2024-07-04-how-i-use-wezterm.html oh, one last issue: there are no resize handles, or a titlebar, although according to the descriptions they should be there. where did they go?
  - metaltyphoon 1y ago
    Hahahaha this was a fun read ;)
  - 1y ago