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> when you are given the option to give a tip before any service has been given [...] why would I give a reward for good service Are there still customers givi

> when you are given the option to give a tip before any service has been given [...] why would I give a reward for good service Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"? I'm trying to imagine a curve representing the distribution of "quality of service". What shape is the curve, and where on it would a 20% tip and a 0% tip be?

froddd 1y ago
> Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"? Sad if this is no longer the case. In the UK at least (and the rest of Europe too, as far as I can tell), this is still very much the case. The curve varies with the individuals tipping. I would be quite happy to give 20% if the service was outstanding. I’m equally happy to not tip at all if the service was very poor.
- liotier 1y ago
  France here - no tip is the norm, tip is for service above & beyond... But, contrary to the USA, everyone gets a proper living wage !
  - lesser-shadow 1y ago
    The only issue with restaurants in France is that they close up early, or only open within strict lunch hours.
    - sokoloff 1y ago
      If you're paying a relatively high hourly wage to all of the staff, it seems unsurprising that you'd not want to be open during times of low customer traffic. Honestly, this seems good overall; there's no more sense in having low-paid waitstaff hanging around hoping to get a customer table that will tip than in having a restaurant owner keep the restaurant open while paying the staff a reasonable hourly wage.
  - nobleach 1y ago
    In France, I always thought it was customary to leave the change from l'addition. (I'm not French though, so perhaps I was commiting a faux pas) I can confirm in Italy almost no one will even accept a tip. (Taxi drivers, wait-staff, hotel staff)
    - liotier 1y ago
      > leave the change from l'addition Yes, that is the basic tip if you expect to come back to that restaurant and get an upgraded welcome. But even with no tip, being a regular counts - tip or no tip, you are good business and worth cultivating.
  - vladvasiliu 1y ago
    Depends on when you are. Making minimum wage while living in Paris isn't exactly a "proper living wage".
    - coldtea 1y ago
      Still it's not the scam that passes for wage in the US (especially considering cost of living and other expenses). And Paris can be anything, from expensive neighborhoods to project suburbs.
    - account42 1y ago
      That isn't the customers problem though nor should it be.
- grues-dinner 1y ago
  > In the UK at least this is still very much the case. Except for the very pervasive 12.5% "discretionary" service charge the you would have to request to be removed. Which is a genius piece of social engineering.
tsimionescu 1y ago
In my country, which does have a tipping culture, the norm is to give a 10% tip in restaurants as a default, for competent service, decent food, etc. If the service is worse than normal (rude server, cold food, huge wait times, mistaken orders etc) you'd live a lower tip, possibly none at all. If the service is great, you might leave a higher tip - though 20% would be considered huge, 12-15% might be quite normal for very good service.
SirFatty 1y ago
Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"? Yes.
GiorgioG 1y ago
In 30+ years I’ve given exactly two restaurant servers 0% tip - it takes a lot for me to give someone nothing, but somehow they met the challenge.
- walterbell 1y ago
  In some scenarios, 1% tip can be informative to humans and data mining algorithms.
voidUpdate 1y ago
I live in the UK, and I personally have never given a tip, I don't think I've even seen it as an option other than physically giving the other person some cash, but AFAIK its generally seen as something you do if the service was excellent, but as I say I've never done it myself. I'm not generally in situations where it could be warranted, like I don't really eat out much or anything like that
- joebe89 1y ago
  As someone who also lives in the UK this surprises me. Almost every restaurant I eat at now takes the liberty of adding a 10% service charge onto every bill. I assume the idea of which is to make it awkward/embarrassing for you to request to have it taken off.
  - voidUpdate 1y ago
    I may have had this happen without realising, but in my head, a tip is something you choose to add on extra, whether for good service or because the workers aren't getting paid properly. If I get a service charge, that's more like just part of the bill that I would pay, though I've only really noticed it as part of online stuff, for example my bank has a £25 service change to send money overseas (for some reason, I can't imagine that the process isn't fully automatic by now)
    - logifail 1y ago
      > for example my bank has a £25 service change to send money overseas OT but the kind of bank that charges £25 for something like that is almost certainly robbing you blind on the exchange rate, too.
- pc86 1y ago
  You've never had excellent service for something?
walterbell 1y ago
> Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"? Are there customers giving tips for other reasons? Any examples?
- NekkoDroid 1y ago
  At least where I am from tipping is more done to round out the bill to a nice number.
- arealaccount 1y ago
  If you’re asked for a 20/25/30% tip before they even start preparing your food, and you need to make extra clicks while the tip recipient is looking at you if you want to tip lower, theres a small fear that the food you ordered wont be prepared as well as someone who left the tip
- nemomarx 1y ago
  On a gig delivery app, you give a tip so that someone will be happy to deliver it and not mess up your food, I think. a 0% tip is risking stuff. You can't really say it's a reward for the service though, more of a payment to secure better service? Lots of places will now ask for tips before the food comes out even in person now - lunch sandwich shops, etc. I don't think they'd be unprofessional enough to mess up your order if you didn't tip, but maybe they'll be happier with you or be more generous if you tip now too.
  - eloisant 1y ago
    I don't think they know you tipped until the delivery is complete, to avoid that precisely.
  - walterbell 1y ago
    On some delivery apps, tips can be increased after service delivery, e.g. baseline at time of order, bonus after good service. > 0% tip is risking stuff There are more numbers between zero and good! Markets depend on information. Price has been information for centuries. The insurance industry has actuarial lessons for managing risk. The delivery app industry has a range of policy measures for managing delivery performance, including but not limited to refunds and blacklisting workers from serving specific clients.
LeafItAlone 1y ago
>Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"? As in any tip at all? No, from me. I don’t think I’ve never _not_ tipped when the situation expects it (sit down restaurant being served). I know the person there is being paid less than minimum wage (where I live), which is already too low in my opinion, so they get something. The amount of the tip certainly is highly dependent on level of service. That could be a significant difference at the end. I’ve tipped over 100% when the staff has done someone that stood out to me. (Having been a server in the past and now in tech, I feel guilty about the work-level/salary imbalance, so I am generally generous with my tips.)
- Workaccount2 1y ago
  > I know the person there is being paid less than minimum wage (where I live) The restaurants I worked at (a variety of family places and bars) everyone was paid $2.13/hr or something like that. And after taxes, you would get a paycheck for $0.00. but The same people who jumped to tell you that they got paid less than minimum wage (especially when customers inquired about it), were making $40-80K year in reality. The service industry is all about hours worked, and which hours you work. A lot of young workers refuse to work the busy shifts (weekends), and hate dinner shifts (could be out with friends) so they only work the slow shifts and make ~$20/hr * 18 hours or something like that. But the people there to make money? They work all the busy shifts and slow shifts to fill the gap (they work a full 40 hours), and the money is insane for what the work is. Meanwhile they will happily tell you they get paychecks for $0.00 and only made $50 on Monday at lunch.
coldtea 1y ago
>Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"? That's the only way people give tips here (not US tho)
- geodel 1y ago
  Hehe, in here (US) tip for a bad hair cut in 15 dollars is 5 dollars. For better haircut maybe go for fancy salon if one is so particular about hairs.
account42 1y ago
Yes, in countries outside the US I don't tip unless I got especially good service. Servers get paid (at least) minimum wage here and if they want more they should take it up with their employer like the rest of us. In the US I usually tip but have refused to do so when the service was especially bad - although even then its a hard decision because you often don't know who is actually responsible for the bad service.
gampleman 1y ago
In my country the norm is for tips to be rounding based rather than percentage. So if your bill is 327.5, you would pay 350, effectively a "keep the change" sort of gesture. I have certainly starred them in the eye and waited for them to ostentatiously count out every last penny when the service was truly abominable. It's a fairly effective way to give feedback. You can also of course round up higher, so in the previous example for exceeding expectations you could round up to 400.

froddd 1y ago

> Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"? Sad if this is no longer the case. In the UK at least (and the rest of Europe too, as far as I can tell), this is still very much the case. The curve varies with the individuals tipping. I would be quite happy to give 20% if the service was outstanding. I’m equally happy to not tip at all if the service was very poor.

liotier 1y ago
France here - no tip is the norm, tip is for service above & beyond... But, contrary to the USA, everyone gets a proper living wage !
- lesser-shadow 1y ago
  The only issue with restaurants in France is that they close up early, or only open within strict lunch hours.
  - sokoloff 1y ago
    If you're paying a relatively high hourly wage to all of the staff, it seems unsurprising that you'd not want to be open during times of low customer traffic. Honestly, this seems good overall; there's no more sense in having low-paid waitstaff hanging around hoping to get a customer table that will tip than in having a restaurant owner keep the restaurant open while paying the staff a reasonable hourly wage.
- nobleach 1y ago
  In France, I always thought it was customary to leave the change from l'addition. (I'm not French though, so perhaps I was commiting a faux pas) I can confirm in Italy almost no one will even accept a tip. (Taxi drivers, wait-staff, hotel staff)
  - liotier 1y ago
    > leave the change from l'addition Yes, that is the basic tip if you expect to come back to that restaurant and get an upgraded welcome. But even with no tip, being a regular counts - tip or no tip, you are good business and worth cultivating.
- vladvasiliu 1y ago
  Depends on when you are. Making minimum wage while living in Paris isn't exactly a "proper living wage".
  - coldtea 1y ago
    Still it's not the scam that passes for wage in the US (especially considering cost of living and other expenses). And Paris can be anything, from expensive neighborhoods to project suburbs.
  - account42 1y ago
    That isn't the customers problem though nor should it be.
grues-dinner 1y ago
> In the UK at least this is still very much the case. Except for the very pervasive 12.5% "discretionary" service charge the you would have to request to be removed. Which is a genius piece of social engineering.

tsimionescu 1y ago

In my country, which does have a tipping culture, the norm is to give a 10% tip in restaurants as a default, for competent service, decent food, etc. If the service is worse than normal (rude server, cold food, huge wait times, mistaken orders etc) you'd live a lower tip, possibly none at all. If the service is great, you might leave a higher tip - though 20% would be considered huge, 12-15% might be quite normal for very good service.

SirFatty 1y ago

Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"? Yes.

GiorgioG 1y ago

In 30+ years I’ve given exactly two restaurant servers 0% tip - it takes a lot for me to give someone nothing, but somehow they met the challenge.

walterbell 1y ago
In some scenarios, 1% tip can be informative to humans and data mining algorithms.

voidUpdate 1y ago

I live in the UK, and I personally have never given a tip, I don't think I've even seen it as an option other than physically giving the other person some cash, but AFAIK its generally seen as something you do if the service was excellent, but as I say I've never done it myself. I'm not generally in situations where it could be warranted, like I don't really eat out much or anything like that

joebe89 1y ago
As someone who also lives in the UK this surprises me. Almost every restaurant I eat at now takes the liberty of adding a 10% service charge onto every bill. I assume the idea of which is to make it awkward/embarrassing for you to request to have it taken off.
- voidUpdate 1y ago
  I may have had this happen without realising, but in my head, a tip is something you choose to add on extra, whether for good service or because the workers aren't getting paid properly. If I get a service charge, that's more like just part of the bill that I would pay, though I've only really noticed it as part of online stuff, for example my bank has a £25 service change to send money overseas (for some reason, I can't imagine that the process isn't fully automatic by now)
  - logifail 1y ago
    > for example my bank has a £25 service change to send money overseas OT but the kind of bank that charges £25 for something like that is almost certainly robbing you blind on the exchange rate, too.
pc86 1y ago
You've never had excellent service for something?

walterbell 1y ago

> Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"? Are there customers giving tips for other reasons? Any examples?

NekkoDroid 1y ago
At least where I am from tipping is more done to round out the bill to a nice number.
arealaccount 1y ago
If you’re asked for a 20/25/30% tip before they even start preparing your food, and you need to make extra clicks while the tip recipient is looking at you if you want to tip lower, theres a small fear that the food you ordered wont be prepared as well as someone who left the tip
nemomarx 1y ago
On a gig delivery app, you give a tip so that someone will be happy to deliver it and not mess up your food, I think. a 0% tip is risking stuff. You can't really say it's a reward for the service though, more of a payment to secure better service? Lots of places will now ask for tips before the food comes out even in person now - lunch sandwich shops, etc. I don't think they'd be unprofessional enough to mess up your order if you didn't tip, but maybe they'll be happier with you or be more generous if you tip now too.
- eloisant 1y ago
  I don't think they know you tipped until the delivery is complete, to avoid that precisely.
- walterbell 1y ago
  On some delivery apps, tips can be increased after service delivery, e.g. baseline at time of order, bonus after good service. > 0% tip is risking stuff There are more numbers between zero and good! Markets depend on information. Price has been information for centuries. The insurance industry has actuarial lessons for managing risk. The delivery app industry has a range of policy measures for managing delivery performance, including but not limited to refunds and blacklisting workers from serving specific clients.

LeafItAlone 1y ago

>Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"? As in any tip at all? No, from me. I don’t think I’ve never _not_ tipped when the situation expects it (sit down restaurant being served). I know the person there is being paid less than minimum wage (where I live), which is already too low in my opinion, so they get something. The amount of the tip certainly is highly dependent on level of service. That could be a significant difference at the end. I’ve tipped over 100% when the staff has done someone that stood out to me. (Having been a server in the past and now in tech, I feel guilty about the work-level/salary imbalance, so I am generally generous with my tips.)

Workaccount2 1y ago
> I know the person there is being paid less than minimum wage (where I live) The restaurants I worked at (a variety of family places and bars) everyone was paid $2.13/hr or something like that. And after taxes, you would get a paycheck for $0.00. but The same people who jumped to tell you that they got paid less than minimum wage (especially when customers inquired about it), were making $40-80K year in reality. The service industry is all about hours worked, and which hours you work. A lot of young workers refuse to work the busy shifts (weekends), and hate dinner shifts (could be out with friends) so they only work the slow shifts and make ~$20/hr * 18 hours or something like that. But the people there to make money? They work all the busy shifts and slow shifts to fill the gap (they work a full 40 hours), and the money is insane for what the work is. Meanwhile they will happily tell you they get paychecks for $0.00 and only made $50 on Monday at lunch.

coldtea 1y ago

>Are there still customers giving tips as "a reward for good service"? That's the only way people give tips here (not US tho)

geodel 1y ago
Hehe, in here (US) tip for a bad hair cut in 15 dollars is 5 dollars. For better haircut maybe go for fancy salon if one is so particular about hairs.

account42 1y ago

Yes, in countries outside the US I don't tip unless I got especially good service. Servers get paid (at least) minimum wage here and if they want more they should take it up with their employer like the rest of us. In the US I usually tip but have refused to do so when the service was especially bad - although even then its a hard decision because you often don't know who is actually responsible for the bad service.

gampleman 1y ago

In my country the norm is for tips to be rounding based rather than percentage. So if your bill is 327.5, you would pay 350, effectively a "keep the change" sort of gesture. I have certainly starred them in the eye and waited for them to ostentatiously count out every last penny when the service was truly abominable. It's a fairly effective way to give feedback. You can also of course round up higher, so in the previous example for exceeding expectations you could round up to 400.