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I don't mind tipping for exceptional service, I do however have a major issue with the obligation of tipping. It really should not be on the customers to pay th

I don't mind tipping for exceptional service, I do however have a major issue with the obligation of tipping. It really should not be on the customers to pay the employees salaries directly.

gwd 1y ago
> It really should not be on random strangers to determine the employees salaries directly FTFY (I mean, actually I agree with your point too; but personally I think tipping is much more unfair to the employees than to the customers.)
ffsm8 1y ago
I do, it creates perverse incentives and dehumanizes people. Imagine yourself catering someone and then having them talk about how great that is and wanting to pay you for that. Not in abstract but actually, in practice. It nails down the servant role, frankly. It feels abhorrent to me, even if you get numb to it over time. From my perspective, tipping is a socially acceptable way to establish classes. Which itself is a terrible practice and the people catering you aren't your servants. I used "catering" in this comment as a placeholder for any job that receives tips.
- Cthulhu_ 1y ago
  What's worse, it adds "emotional labor" (if I may borrow that term) to a staffer's job; while it's expected for staff to be representative of their company, it really feels like staff in tipping establishments have to put on a show and fake persona to optimize the tipping. But likewise, if you don't tip or don't do enough you (as a customer) are treated like shit. I'm too autistic to be playing these games and figuring this shit out. I'm glad I don't live in the US.
- Wololooo 1y ago
  It really depends on the amount. In Belgium for instance there would be no tipping, but rounding up or adding one or two spare coins of change you still have on you in case the service was excellent. It is like any job where people get a bonus because they have gone above and beyond.
  - CalRobert 1y ago
    Is this changing as cash gets less common?
    - Wololooo 1y ago
      Sorry for the delay, but yes, people have a tendency of rounding up if this is a possibility and it gets either charged to the person or put into a pot redistributed to everyone, depending on the local policy where everyone agrees beforehand. This is normally on top of any bonuses for performance that the employees would get and their living wage which is guaranteed.
  - kelnos 1y ago
    Why can't the employer give that bonus? In non-service jobs employees don't get tips for going above and beyond; they get raises or bonuses.
    - Wololooo 1y ago
      This is normally on top of any bonuses for performance that the employees would get and their living wage which is guaranteed.
  - ImJamal 1y ago
    Giving extra money is literally tipping?
    - Wololooo 1y ago
      Yes, but the default would be no tipping, I meant this was and is seen as completely optional and non required.
kelnos 1y ago
I don't think we should be tipping at all, even for exceptional service. The job is the job, and the employer should be paying the full amount that job is worth. If the employee is doing it exceptionally well, going above and beyond, the employer should reward them with a raise, same as for salaried positions. That's assuming the employer values that above-and-beyond-ness, of course. If not, they won't give that raise, and employees will eventually settle on a level of service that the employer is paying for. If that's good enough for the customers, that's fine. If not, that's an opportunity for a competitor to pay employees more so they'll serve customers better. Customers should not be put in the awkward position of feeling like they should be augmenting people's wages, even if it's on top of an already-sufficient living wage. Wages paid is a negotiation between employer and employee. Customers should not be involved, beyond paying the listed or contracted/agreed-upon price.
- scyzoryk_xyz 1y ago
  I live in a country with near zero tipping culture. For the most part I find the food gets to my table at some point but I'm rarely particularly happy with customer service. It's sometimes an awkward negotiation to get their attention or to ask something. The opposite was true in my time living in the US - soft skills, fast response, engagement are standard. And I've been on both sides of that in food service. Now, the logic of what youre talking about makes perfect sense and I agree with that in principle. And yet there is something about dining that is somehow different. Escapes that definition. There are also times I find that exchanging money is more honest. I want you to serve me, I'm paying you, I don't have to keep at the back of my mind a question whether I'm asking something beyond what your boss expects/pays you. I like that about the US - it's brutal but that's reality. Don't get me wrong, I live in EU for a reason, but some things here are made unnecessarily complicated and oblique too.
  - squigz 1y ago
    > There are also times I find that exchanging money is more honest. I want you to serve me, I'm paying you, I don't have to keep at the back of my mind a question whether I'm asking something beyond what your boss expects/pays you. I like that about the US - it's brutal but that's reality. But isn't this describing tipping? You're having to ask yourself, "Is this service good enough for a tip? How much of a tip?" instead of just exchanging money for the service and that's it.

I don't mind tipping for exceptional service, I do however have a major issue with the obligation of tipping. It really should not be on the customers to pay the employees salaries directly.

gwd 1y ago

> It really should not be on random strangers to determine the employees salaries directly FTFY (I mean, actually I agree with your point too; but personally I think tipping is much more unfair to the employees than to the customers.)

ffsm8 1y ago

I do, it creates perverse incentives and dehumanizes people. Imagine yourself catering someone and then having them talk about how great that is and wanting to pay you for that. Not in abstract but actually, in practice. It nails down the servant role, frankly. It feels abhorrent to me, even if you get numb to it over time. From my perspective, tipping is a socially acceptable way to establish classes. Which itself is a terrible practice and the people catering you aren't your servants. I used "catering" in this comment as a placeholder for any job that receives tips.

Cthulhu_ 1y ago
What's worse, it adds "emotional labor" (if I may borrow that term) to a staffer's job; while it's expected for staff to be representative of their company, it really feels like staff in tipping establishments have to put on a show and fake persona to optimize the tipping. But likewise, if you don't tip or don't do enough you (as a customer) are treated like shit. I'm too autistic to be playing these games and figuring this shit out. I'm glad I don't live in the US.
Wololooo 1y ago
It really depends on the amount. In Belgium for instance there would be no tipping, but rounding up or adding one or two spare coins of change you still have on you in case the service was excellent. It is like any job where people get a bonus because they have gone above and beyond.
- CalRobert 1y ago
  Is this changing as cash gets less common?
  - Wololooo 1y ago
    Sorry for the delay, but yes, people have a tendency of rounding up if this is a possibility and it gets either charged to the person or put into a pot redistributed to everyone, depending on the local policy where everyone agrees beforehand. This is normally on top of any bonuses for performance that the employees would get and their living wage which is guaranteed.
- kelnos 1y ago
  Why can't the employer give that bonus? In non-service jobs employees don't get tips for going above and beyond; they get raises or bonuses.
  - Wololooo 1y ago
    This is normally on top of any bonuses for performance that the employees would get and their living wage which is guaranteed.
- ImJamal 1y ago
  Giving extra money is literally tipping?
  - Wololooo 1y ago
    Yes, but the default would be no tipping, I meant this was and is seen as completely optional and non required.

kelnos 1y ago

I don't think we should be tipping at all, even for exceptional service. The job is the job, and the employer should be paying the full amount that job is worth. If the employee is doing it exceptionally well, going above and beyond, the employer should reward them with a raise, same as for salaried positions. That's assuming the employer values that above-and-beyond-ness, of course. If not, they won't give that raise, and employees will eventually settle on a level of service that the employer is paying for. If that's good enough for the customers, that's fine. If not, that's an opportunity for a competitor to pay employees more so they'll serve customers better. Customers should not be put in the awkward position of feeling like they should be augmenting people's wages, even if it's on top of an already-sufficient living wage. Wages paid is a negotiation between employer and employee. Customers should not be involved, beyond paying the listed or contracted/agreed-upon price.

scyzoryk_xyz 1y ago
I live in a country with near zero tipping culture. For the most part I find the food gets to my table at some point but I'm rarely particularly happy with customer service. It's sometimes an awkward negotiation to get their attention or to ask something. The opposite was true in my time living in the US - soft skills, fast response, engagement are standard. And I've been on both sides of that in food service. Now, the logic of what youre talking about makes perfect sense and I agree with that in principle. And yet there is something about dining that is somehow different. Escapes that definition. There are also times I find that exchanging money is more honest. I want you to serve me, I'm paying you, I don't have to keep at the back of my mind a question whether I'm asking something beyond what your boss expects/pays you. I like that about the US - it's brutal but that's reality. Don't get me wrong, I live in EU for a reason, but some things here are made unnecessarily complicated and oblique too.
- squigz 1y ago
  > There are also times I find that exchanging money is more honest. I want you to serve me, I'm paying you, I don't have to keep at the back of my mind a question whether I'm asking something beyond what your boss expects/pays you. I like that about the US - it's brutal but that's reality. But isn't this describing tipping? You're having to ask yourself, "Is this service good enough for a tip? How much of a tip?" instead of just exchanging money for the service and that's it.