4 ms·

Living in Ireland from 2013-2023 I saw tipping get _much_ more common, sadly.

by CalRobert 1y ago

closewith 1y ago
[flagged]
- CalRobert 1y ago
  I spent half my adult life in Ireland, had kids there, built a house there, etc and like to think that during said time I learned a few things and noticed changes. I do think part of it related to POS systems normalizing it. But it is certainly possible that our experiences differed. It was more common in Dublin 2 than in Offaly I'd say... Honestly something that was a bit galling was that the Irish would moan about Ireland morning day and night but the instant a foreigner made _any_ observation that wasn't rainbows and sunshine we were out of our lane and needed to shut up. And I spent much more of my time extolling Ireland's virtues than complaining about it! It was surreal to be chatting with taxi drivers and trying to make the point that Ireland wasn't an utter kip.
  - closewith 1y ago
    > Honestly something that was a bit galling was that the Irish would moan about Ireland morning day and night but the instant a foreigner made _any_ observation that wasn't rainbows and sunshine we were out of our lane and needed to shut up. Not to be rude, but have you considered this may have been an issue with you and your attitude, rather than everyone you met, if even people who you seemed to think liked you couldn't stand you.
    - CalRobert 1y ago
      No, not really. My experience there was generally positive and I met lots of great people. That being said it’s fair to observe that different cultures have different traits. I have a friend here in the Netherlands from Roscommon and he gives out about Ireland -much- more than me, and when I mentioned we’d lived in Offaly he described it as “the beating heart of Irish begrudgery”, which checks out. Anyway this conversation is a net negative to my day and I’m bowing out.
    - circlefavshape 1y ago
      "Not to be rude" my hole. What @CalRobert said is 100% accurate - only we are allowed to criticise Ireland, and criticism is especially unwelcome from Brits and Yanks
      - closewith 1y ago
        I disagree. Irish are _much more_ receptive to criticism of the country from immigrants than most countries. In my experience, the United States and England (not the entire UK) have the thinnest skin and some people will straight-up tell you to f-off home on the slightest criticism, especially on the subject of human rights or the expeditionary wars. There are of course the usual suspects, the racists and "Pro-Irish" crowd, who will blame everything on immigrants and accept no criticism of their imagined Ireland, but this isn't true in general. However, if you make grand pronouncements from a position of profound ignorance and overtly judge the life choices of your new compatriots - a speciality of the GP - you will find yourself alienated at best. This is true everywhere, not just Ireland.
        marcusb 1y ago
        > I disagree. Irish are _much more_ receptive to criticism of the country from immigrants than most countries. Unless, of course, the criticism is someone making a personal observation about how they saw tipping culture expand during their time in Ireland, right? Then the appropriate response is to generalize that Americans love making ignorant comments about other cultures.
        closewith 1y ago
        > Unless, of course, the criticism is someone making a personal observation about how they saw tipping culture expand during their time in Ireland, right? Then the appropriate response is to generalize that Americans love making ignorant comments about other cultures. Unless they're factually incorrect, which is the case here.
        marcusb 1y ago
  - Al-Khwarizmi 1y ago
    > Honestly something that was a bit galling was that the Irish would moan about Ireland morning day and night but the instant a foreigner made _any_ observation that wasn't rainbows and sunshine we were out of our lane and needed to shut up. In Spain we tend to have a similar attitude. Not really telling people to shut up, but if foreigners criticize our country we tend to get defensive, even if they are saying things we would agree with or say in a conversation between locals. For me it's like common sense, just like you don't acknowledge family problems when you talk to people outside close family and friends, but it's probably just the culture I've been raised in.
    - CalRobert 1y ago
      Yeah, but when immigrants to my home country complained we generally agreed. I mean, why wouldn’t people experiencing the same system have similar complaints?
      - Al-Khwarizmi 1y ago
        Oh, OK. I was thinking about foreigners that are here just for a visit. Immigrants get treated like one of us in this respect. In fact immigrants soon experience the horrors of our bureaucracy when they need to obtain their papers, and this typically creates opportunities to bond with the locals by venting about it :)
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
  - drawfloat 1y ago
    America has spent the last century proclaiming itself the greatest country on earth, whilst simultaneously causing untold political and social problems in "lesser countries" to its own benefit. Some deep rooted resentment when an American criticises a place is natural.
    - CalRobert 1y ago
      Fair! I left America in part due to disgust with the place so I likely share many sentiments.
  - circlefavshape 1y ago
    > Honestly something that was a bit galling was that the Irish would moan about Ireland morning day and night but the instant a foreigner made _any_ observation that wasn't rainbows and sunshine we were out of our lane and needed to shut up Haha nail on head here. On behalf of my fellow Irish people - sorry!
  - rambambram 1y ago
    Very off-topic: but the RSS icon on your website still(?) points to feedly and doesn't give your latest blogpost but some feedly crap.
    - CalRobert 1y ago
      Thanks, I should take it down, really…
- Macha 1y ago
  Nah, born and lived here my whole life and requests for tips are way up, from just eat to payment terminals asking for 10% for things that maybe would have been untipped in the past.
bilekas 1y ago
I don't mind tipping for exceptional service, I do however have a major issue with the obligation of tipping. It really should not be on the customers to pay the employees salaries directly.
- gwd 1y ago
  > It really should not be on random strangers to determine the employees salaries directly FTFY (I mean, actually I agree with your point too; but personally I think tipping is much more unfair to the employees than to the customers.)
- ffsm8 1y ago
  I do, it creates perverse incentives and dehumanizes people. Imagine yourself catering someone and then having them talk about how great that is and wanting to pay you for that. Not in abstract but actually, in practice. It nails down the servant role, frankly. It feels abhorrent to me, even if you get numb to it over time. From my perspective, tipping is a socially acceptable way to establish classes. Which itself is a terrible practice and the people catering you aren't your servants. I used "catering" in this comment as a placeholder for any job that receives tips.
  - Cthulhu_ 1y ago
    What's worse, it adds "emotional labor" (if I may borrow that term) to a staffer's job; while it's expected for staff to be representative of their company, it really feels like staff in tipping establishments have to put on a show and fake persona to optimize the tipping. But likewise, if you don't tip or don't do enough you (as a customer) are treated like shit. I'm too autistic to be playing these games and figuring this shit out. I'm glad I don't live in the US.
  - Wololooo 1y ago
    It really depends on the amount. In Belgium for instance there would be no tipping, but rounding up or adding one or two spare coins of change you still have on you in case the service was excellent. It is like any job where people get a bonus because they have gone above and beyond.

Living in Ireland from 2013-2023 I saw tipping get _much_ more common, sadly.

closewith 1y ago

[flagged]

CalRobert 1y ago
I spent half my adult life in Ireland, had kids there, built a house there, etc and like to think that during said time I learned a few things and noticed changes. I do think part of it related to POS systems normalizing it. But it is certainly possible that our experiences differed. It was more common in Dublin 2 than in Offaly I'd say... Honestly something that was a bit galling was that the Irish would moan about Ireland morning day and night but the instant a foreigner made _any_ observation that wasn't rainbows and sunshine we were out of our lane and needed to shut up. And I spent much more of my time extolling Ireland's virtues than complaining about it! It was surreal to be chatting with taxi drivers and trying to make the point that Ireland wasn't an utter kip.
- closewith 1y ago
  > Honestly something that was a bit galling was that the Irish would moan about Ireland morning day and night but the instant a foreigner made _any_ observation that wasn't rainbows and sunshine we were out of our lane and needed to shut up. Not to be rude, but have you considered this may have been an issue with you and your attitude, rather than everyone you met, if even people who you seemed to think liked you couldn't stand you.
  - CalRobert 1y ago
    No, not really. My experience there was generally positive and I met lots of great people. That being said it’s fair to observe that different cultures have different traits. I have a friend here in the Netherlands from Roscommon and he gives out about Ireland -much- more than me, and when I mentioned we’d lived in Offaly he described it as “the beating heart of Irish begrudgery”, which checks out. Anyway this conversation is a net negative to my day and I’m bowing out.
  - circlefavshape 1y ago
    "Not to be rude" my hole. What @CalRobert said is 100% accurate - only we are allowed to criticise Ireland, and criticism is especially unwelcome from Brits and Yanks
    - closewith 1y ago
      I disagree. Irish are _much more_ receptive to criticism of the country from immigrants than most countries. In my experience, the United States and England (not the entire UK) have the thinnest skin and some people will straight-up tell you to f-off home on the slightest criticism, especially on the subject of human rights or the expeditionary wars. There are of course the usual suspects, the racists and "Pro-Irish" crowd, who will blame everything on immigrants and accept no criticism of their imagined Ireland, but this isn't true in general. However, if you make grand pronouncements from a position of profound ignorance and overtly judge the life choices of your new compatriots - a speciality of the GP - you will find yourself alienated at best. This is true everywhere, not just Ireland.
      - marcusb 1y ago
        > I disagree. Irish are _much more_ receptive to criticism of the country from immigrants than most countries. Unless, of course, the criticism is someone making a personal observation about how they saw tipping culture expand during their time in Ireland, right? Then the appropriate response is to generalize that Americans love making ignorant comments about other cultures.
        closewith 1y ago
        > Unless, of course, the criticism is someone making a personal observation about how they saw tipping culture expand during their time in Ireland, right? Then the appropriate response is to generalize that Americans love making ignorant comments about other cultures. Unless they're factually incorrect, which is the case here.
        marcusb 1y ago
- Al-Khwarizmi 1y ago
  > Honestly something that was a bit galling was that the Irish would moan about Ireland morning day and night but the instant a foreigner made _any_ observation that wasn't rainbows and sunshine we were out of our lane and needed to shut up. In Spain we tend to have a similar attitude. Not really telling people to shut up, but if foreigners criticize our country we tend to get defensive, even if they are saying things we would agree with or say in a conversation between locals. For me it's like common sense, just like you don't acknowledge family problems when you talk to people outside close family and friends, but it's probably just the culture I've been raised in.
  - CalRobert 1y ago
    Yeah, but when immigrants to my home country complained we generally agreed. I mean, why wouldn’t people experiencing the same system have similar complaints?
    - Al-Khwarizmi 1y ago
      Oh, OK. I was thinking about foreigners that are here just for a visit. Immigrants get treated like one of us in this respect. In fact immigrants soon experience the horrors of our bureaucracy when they need to obtain their papers, and this typically creates opportunities to bond with the locals by venting about it :)
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
- drawfloat 1y ago
  America has spent the last century proclaiming itself the greatest country on earth, whilst simultaneously causing untold political and social problems in "lesser countries" to its own benefit. Some deep rooted resentment when an American criticises a place is natural.
  - CalRobert 1y ago
    Fair! I left America in part due to disgust with the place so I likely share many sentiments.
- circlefavshape 1y ago
  > Honestly something that was a bit galling was that the Irish would moan about Ireland morning day and night but the instant a foreigner made _any_ observation that wasn't rainbows and sunshine we were out of our lane and needed to shut up Haha nail on head here. On behalf of my fellow Irish people - sorry!
- rambambram 1y ago
  Very off-topic: but the RSS icon on your website still(?) points to feedly and doesn't give your latest blogpost but some feedly crap.
  - CalRobert 1y ago
    Thanks, I should take it down, really…
Macha 1y ago
Nah, born and lived here my whole life and requests for tips are way up, from just eat to payment terminals asking for 10% for things that maybe would have been untipped in the past.

bilekas 1y ago

I don't mind tipping for exceptional service, I do however have a major issue with the obligation of tipping. It really should not be on the customers to pay the employees salaries directly.

gwd 1y ago
> It really should not be on random strangers to determine the employees salaries directly FTFY (I mean, actually I agree with your point too; but personally I think tipping is much more unfair to the employees than to the customers.)
ffsm8 1y ago
I do, it creates perverse incentives and dehumanizes people. Imagine yourself catering someone and then having them talk about how great that is and wanting to pay you for that. Not in abstract but actually, in practice. It nails down the servant role, frankly. It feels abhorrent to me, even if you get numb to it over time. From my perspective, tipping is a socially acceptable way to establish classes. Which itself is a terrible practice and the people catering you aren't your servants. I used "catering" in this comment as a placeholder for any job that receives tips.
- Cthulhu_ 1y ago
  What's worse, it adds "emotional labor" (if I may borrow that term) to a staffer's job; while it's expected for staff to be representative of their company, it really feels like staff in tipping establishments have to put on a show and fake persona to optimize the tipping. But likewise, if you don't tip or don't do enough you (as a customer) are treated like shit. I'm too autistic to be playing these games and figuring this shit out. I'm glad I don't live in the US.
- Wololooo 1y ago
  It really depends on the amount. In Belgium for instance there would be no tipping, but rounding up or adding one or two spare coins of change you still have on you in case the service was excellent. It is like any job where people get a bonus because they have gone above and beyond.