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Backbone really doesn't suck though if you add enough stuff on top of it. It only sucks if you're forced to use it raw.

ajross 14y ago
For the life of me I can't tell if this is satire or not. On the assumption it's not (and apologies otherwise): The universally acknowledged downside of "frameworks" (vs. "toolboxes") is the "weight" of unused software that they bring along for the ride. So to argue that a framework is good only if you add enough junk on top (!) of it just seems like a joke.
- mhd 14y ago
  The difference in framework "weight" is mostly about an opinionated view regarding how the non-framework part of your final application will and/or should look like. Backbone is assuming that this will look quite differently, depending on your personal style and the needs of the application. Other frameworks differ. It is quite likely that the final LOC for lots of frameworks will look the same, assuming both framework and app developer are on the same professional level. Opinions differ on how much of that code is reasonable to put in the framework itself (and I bet a lot of that is stemming from differences on how professional/good your average app developer is).
- at-fates-hands 14y ago
  I'm going to go with venting since it would have made sense to actually show the screen his was using for his presentation. Instead, it was completely ignored during the course of the rant.
- KaoruAoiShiho 14y ago
  I wouldn't recommend a heavy framework that tries to magicfy everything for you, that kind of framework is really not to my taste. ie emberjs. But backbone itself is very light, you can probably read the entire source in under 30 minutes. Nobody is telling you to pack some huge framework on top of backbone, but depending on the complexity of your application Backbone might just not do enough. Something like https://github.com/marionettejs/backbone.marionette https://github.com/marionettejs/backbone.marionette is just another toolbox where you can pick and choose the tools you need. This is why I really like backbone, because you have the option of going big or small on the libraries you're using depending on your needs, and each individual component is small and easy to understand.
jashkenas 14y ago
Obligatory repeat of the same conversation from a couple weeks ago: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4427974 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4427974

For the life of me I can't tell if this is satire or not. On the assumption it's not (and apologies otherwise): The universally acknowledged downside of "frameworks" (vs. "toolboxes") is the "weight" of unused software that they bring along for the ride. So to argue that a framework is good only if you add enough junk on top (!) of it just seems like a joke.

mhd 14y ago
The difference in framework "weight" is mostly about an opinionated view regarding how the non-framework part of your final application will and/or should look like. Backbone is assuming that this will look quite differently, depending on your personal style and the needs of the application. Other frameworks differ. It is quite likely that the final LOC for lots of frameworks will look the same, assuming both framework and app developer are on the same professional level. Opinions differ on how much of that code is reasonable to put in the framework itself (and I bet a lot of that is stemming from differences on how professional/good your average app developer is).
at-fates-hands 14y ago
I'm going to go with venting since it would have made sense to actually show the screen his was using for his presentation. Instead, it was completely ignored during the course of the rant.
KaoruAoiShiho 14y ago
I wouldn't recommend a heavy framework that tries to magicfy everything for you, that kind of framework is really not to my taste. ie emberjs. But backbone itself is very light, you can probably read the entire source in under 30 minutes. Nobody is telling you to pack some huge framework on top of backbone, but depending on the complexity of your application Backbone might just not do enough. Something like https://github.com/marionettejs/backbone.marionette https://github.com/marionettejs/backbone.marionette is just another toolbox where you can pick and choose the tools you need. This is why I really like backbone, because you have the option of going big or small on the libraries you're using depending on your needs, and each individual component is small and easy to understand.

jashkenas 14y ago

Obligatory repeat of the same conversation from a couple weeks ago: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4427974 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4427974