12 ms·
It’s crazy that this still happens in the US. Tipping is a thing of the past. Pay for your meal and have the restaurant pay their people for their work. End of
by oellegaard 1y ago
It’s crazy that this still happens in the US.
Tipping is a thing of the past. Pay for your meal and have the restaurant pay their people for their work. End of story.
- efitz 1y agoThere’s very little empirical evidence correlating tipping with better service.
- frollogaston 1y agoNo, they're definitely more attentive for the tip, I just don't like it. If they're going to be extra nice, I don't want it to be for money. Felt nice going to other countries like Australia where the customer isn't always right but they still do their jobs.
- ecb_penguin 1y agoBud, literally nobody gives a shit about waiting on you. They are literally only doing it for the money. People in Australia are still doing it for the money, even if you don't realize it.
- ghiculescu 1y agoAs an Australian who lived in America for 5 years - it’s bonkers to claim the service is better (or even as good) in Aus. It’s clearly more attentive in the states, anyone who says otherwise has an agenda. Sometimes you don’t want good service - as in, you don’t want a server to talk to you. That’s a lot easier to find here.
- frollogaston 1y agoYeah, this exactly matches my experience visiting Sydney from the US, it was great. I'm not antisocial, in fact I enjoy talking to strangers, but it feels very wrong to pay them for it.
- freehorse 1y agoThey are still paid to be polite and friendly, just not directly from you. It can also be a selection process because the ppl who do not smile enough have been fired or not taken for the job in the first place. Having a boss in these industries “encouraging“ employees to smile more is not unheard of. It makes sense that it feels better than paying directly to produce this outcome, but in a last analysis it is not very different.
- skissane 1y agoIt isn’t just employees. The manager/owner of the coffee shop I buy coffee from most mornings is very friendly - I’m sure part of this is just her personality, but it is also good business sense - there are lots of other places people can buy coffee instead, and no doubt her friendliness is one of the factors that keeps many of her regular customers coming back. And this is Australia, so no tips involved-it would feel weird and embarrassing even to offer one.
- frollogaston 1y agoIt's not the same as working for tip.
- closewith 1y agoOr they may have different values to you. I find American style surveillance services and false smiles pushing upsells to be the worst restaurant experience globally. I'd take any abrupt waiter over that.
- jumpkick 1y agoAs an American, having traveled in Europe a few times and dined out a lot, I much prefer the culture of just leaving me alone and letting me signal the waiter to come over when I need something.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- ENGNR 1y agoRestaurant staff are still nice in Australia, and friendly. They don't HAVE to be, but they also don't have to do a bunch of unnecessary stuff to play the tips game, like fill up water that's barely empty or check in on how you're going all the time. Maybe people in America like a "service heavy" experience, and the only way to get it is tips?
- ricardobeat 1y agoI think that’s pretty much the gist of it. People enjoy the diner-style pampering, and the only way to get that kind of service is if the employees are coerced to do it in order to get a living wage. Happy employees who earn good salaries would not submit to ass-kissing and degrading work. Knowing this is what makes the often terrible service in the Netherlands a bit more tolerable :)
- bnralt 1y ago> Maybe people in America like a "service heavy" experience, and the only way to get it is tips? Interestingly enough, I find the service worse in the U.S. Part of the reason is that the tip system leads to waiters wasting time talking about a table, and waiters who aren't your own feeling like they don't have to do anything for you. It usually takes me 5-10 times longer to pay the check in the U.S. than it does in some other countries. I wish restaurants started offering self service sections where you could order by phone and pick up the food yourself. Having to use waiters gives me the same feeling as when I drive through New Jersey and I'm not allowed to pump my own gas.
- frollogaston 1y agoThat's a good analogy. I appreciate good service, but tipping doesn't exactly lead to that.
- closewith 1y agoPeople who are not under constant existential stress are generally friendly and nice to other people, even when there's no direct financial benefit. If you need to pay people to be pleasant to you, that's a moment for introspection.
- Cthulhu_ 1y agoI don't fully believe this. There will be a category of staff for who the job is just a way to make money, sure, usually while they're also going to college/uni. But plenty are in the industry because it's their vocation, because they enjoy it, because they're people-persons, because they're good at it.
- retsibsi 1y agoThey're doing the job for the money. They're relating to the customer both as part of their job, and as an actual human interaction. (Obviously the extent to which this is true varies a lot depending on the individuals involved and the context.) Believe it or not, sometimes people are genuinely friendly, even at work, and even when they're not receiving any extra compensation for going beyond the required level of politeness. Those interactions are, IMO, worth more than forced "friendliness" from someone who is simply looking to get as much money as they can out of me.
- JasonBorne 1y agoThere is definitely a huge difference in countries where they tip and countries where they don't tip.
- Balinares 1y agoI've been to both, a lot, and I've not noticed any difference whatsoever. Good service is the norm everywhere, honestly, and the odd instance of bad service happens everywhere too. Beyond that, I personally find that leveraging someone's economic desperation to coerce deference out of them is disgusting. Give me staff who have the option to walk out without material harm, and choose not to.
- bigbacaloa 1y ago[dead]
- raincole 1y agoYeah, the huge difference is that in the US waiters or even managers might confront you if you choose to not tip.
- alkonaut 1y agoThere’s tipping everywhere (more or less, there are some exceptions). But there’s just one country that I know of where 15% is ”no tip” because it’s the expected baseline, and 25% is a small tip because it’s 5-10% over the expected minimum so the actual ”tip” part of a 25% tip is actually less. I tip 0-10% where I live. Just like most Americans tip 15-25% but the first 15 are just eaten by expectation. There is zero difference except that 1) my menu shows actual prices 2) wait staff have a living wage regardless of tips or how busy the restaurant was that day.
- olalonde 1y agoWhat do you mean? Service is usually far better in Asia than in Western countries and there's no tipping.
- TFYS 1y agoComing from a country with no tipping at all, it was somewhat creepy how the people expecting tips acted when I visited the US for the first time. You can tell when friendliness is fake/forced, and living in a country without tipping you don't see it nearly as much. I felt a bit uncomfortable.
- CalRobert 1y agoThere is evidence correlating being attractive to getting better tips, interestingly.
- xp84 1y ago100% this! I hate how the main narrative it seems like Americans believe about tipping, especially among a certain set of privileged college-educated Democrat types, is that tipping is this virtuous practice that benefits the underclass so much, when really, it benefits restaurant owners most, and if any workers are better off under a tipping system, it's a small minority, like highly attractive white female servers in establishments that have rich clientele. Everyone else would be better off if prices (not a surcharge) went up once by 20% and restaurants spent that money on wages and abolished all tipping.
- CalRobert 1y agoThe servers I knew dyed their hair blonde to get better tips. Writing a smiley on the receipt worked wonders too.
- isleyaardvark 1y agoAnd evidence correlating being a minority with lower tips.
- phyzix5761 1y agoYep, its called the Beauty Premium. There's evidence that being attractive leads to better job outcomes in most industries including higher starting salaries, more job offers, faster promotions, and better performance evaluations.
- tombert 1y agoAnecdata, but I go to Taco Bell way more often than I should. There’s no tipping culture at Taco Bell, but the staff, at least at the one near my house, are always very nice to me and as far as I can tell my food is made with a sufficient amount of care. When I do go to a restaurant that has tipping, people are usually nice to me as well, but I don’t feel like they’re really any nicer or better at their job than my local Taco Bell workers.
- jppope 1y agoAnyone who has worked in a restaurant or bar can provide plenty of observational data that if you provide better service you will be tipped better. I would recommend trying out working as a server/bartender you will understand tipping a lot better.
- aprilthird2021 1y agoWhy should we tip restaurant workers but not janitors or phone customer service reps? Why are they better than other types of service workers?
- lazide 1y agoWell, one does handle your food before you eat it - and before you’ve seen it.
- aprilthird2021 1y agoLove the idea that threatening people into giving you a tax exempt handout is anything other than a mafia move
- lazide 1y agoOh it’s not a threat, it’s the implication.
- taeric 1y agoPhone reps, of course, have the difficulty of not being in physical contact with you. The others, though, my grandparents actually would tip house cleaners. Would get annoyed if we left out cash in the hotel, as "you should only do that if you are wanting the help staff to have it. And then, you should do it in an obvious way so that they don't feel like they are stealing." I distinctly remember them writing notes and leaving them with a tip on the desk.
- aprilthird2021 1y ago
- bapak 1y agoThe crazier part is that it's spreading to more industries and more countries thanks to Americans thinking they should tip everyone everywhere. Thanks.
- ecb_penguin 1y agoYep. It's wonderful throwing a few extra bucks to some euro waiter and watching them treat you better than everyone else.
- omnimus 1y agoWhen they treat you better? In the last 2 minutes after you payed just before you leave?
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago> In the last 2 minutes after you payed just before you leave? Definitely the next time I come back. Restaurant workers should earn a good wage. Tipping should not be mandatory. But tips, in particular large tips, are fine and work globally.
- Gud 1y agoWhy?
- kergonath 1y agoYou know what works even better? Being a friendly and nice person. It has the added bonus that when they greet you and "treat you better" (whatever you mean by that) next time you’ll know it’s not just because of your wallet.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago> You know what works even better? Being a friendly and nice person I do both. And I don’t always leave a large tip. If I’m having a good quarter or year, I’ll share it. If I’m not, I can’t. At the end of the day, they’re running a business and I’m a customer. If we’re friends I’ll buy them dinner (and they’ll comp random stuff).
- ecb_penguin 1y ago> Pay for your meal Not sure you know what tipping is, but it's not paying for the meal. It's paying for the service. 1. I like being able to pay for better service 2. Despite what people like to think, everywhere in the world has appreciated tips. I've never had a waiter refuse extra money. Literally dozens of countries, you get better service if you tip.
- beAbU 1y agoThe tip is usually given at the end of the service. How does that ensure a better experience during?
- quantummagic 1y agoYou're asking how a tip can influence a server, if they don't know it's coming. But in America they do know it's coming, at least, there is a cultural norm of tipping being expected. So it makes sense that a server would do what it takes, to make sure that it happens.
- MH15 1y agoThat's what the money is for!
- quantummagic 1y agoHuh? The OP asked how a tip could influence the service, if it came after the service was delivered. It's pretty easy to understand, when a tip is the cultural norm.
- kelnos 1y agoSo in other words, you'd still get good service without tipping at all in places like the US. Granted, it might be awkward when it comes time to leave, and if they'd recognize you, you may not want to go back.
- 1y ago
- oulipo 1y agoThat's why I never tip. Otherwise you're giving the perfect excuse to restaurant owners to lower wages. - have a liveable minimum wage - force restaurant owners to pay at least that period
- cestith 1y agoIf you’re in the US and refuse to tip, you should consider only eating out at places that pay more than the tipped minimum wage (in many states still $2.13 an hour). If you’re going to protest with your wallet, hurt the owners and not the staff.
- johnisgood 1y agoTipping is a thing in Eastern (to be more accurate: Central) Europe too, but where I live, tipping is not taxed. Actually, let me be more accurate: people who pay with credit card always tip in cash, as there is no way to tip with a credit card[1]. :P If you buy anything with a credit card, the total amount must always be identical to the sum of the prices of the products, it can never be more, so cannot include tips[1], which forces people who tip to tip with cash. Food deliveries (similar to Uber Eats in the US I suppose) have the option to tip, and 100% goes to the courier. 200 HUF (0.57 USD) is the most common amount (as per their website[2]). We do not use percentages. [1] It varies and might not be universal. [2] https://foodora.hu https://foodora.hu
- Cthulhu_ 1y ago"Cash is untaxed" is a universal rule; there's a food stall that only sells deep fried Vietnamese eggrolls (and has for decades), they prefer cash; in part because cash is untaxed and they may forget to document every sale on occasion, but also because they do relatively low amount transactions (<€10), the €0.25 transaction fee does add up for them. It's also why "knowing a guy" can be useful, tradesmen coming in on their off hours to do a job for cash.
- johnisgood 1y agoYeah, "knowing a guy" is very common here, as in, hey, I know a plumber, I know an electrician, I know a painter, and this and that. It is always cash with them, of course.
- fph 1y agoIn my country (euro-land), transaction fees are often brought up by shopkeepers as a bogus excuse, but in real life banks offer plenty of percentage-only plans without fixed transaction fees.
- gambiting 1y ago>>Actually, let me be more accurate: people who pay with credit card always tip in cash, as there is no way to tip with a credit card. Eh? I don't know if you consider Poland eastern europe(I don't really), but I tip with a card all the time in Poland, you just ask "hey can I leave a tip on the card" and they bump up the amount by whatever you want to tip. And no, the amount doesn't then equal what's on the receipt - I don't know how they work it out internally, but frankly that's not my problem.
- reissbaker 1y agoHaving just come back to the States from a trip to Europe — sheesh, I hope not. The service at restaurants everywhere in Europe was at best mediocre, and typically god-awful. Incentivizing good service is good. Yes, yes, "but the price on the menu says..." Whatever. If you're in the U.S., it's normalized that the price you actually pay is 20% higher, assuming they treat you well. Restaurants don't typically print the tax on their menus either, and yet no one tears their hair out over having to pay sales tax, and various city taxes, etc etc. The service is so, so much better in the U.S. because of tipping. Tipping culture is good.
- moralestapia 1y agoNot my experience. I've got great and shit service in Europe. I've got great and shit service in the US. Tip/no-tip hasn't been a factor.
- gambiting 1y agoOn the other hand, when I visited US on a work trip we've had an absolutely awful service at a restaurant, like the waiter was genuienly rude to us, and at the end I said ok, well, this was awful, I guess we're not leaving a tip then - and our American host laughed and said no, you still have to leave a tip. Why? Because it would be rude not to. And these people earn very little so you have to leave a tip. But.....the service was bad? Why would we tip? "because you have to". That's nonsense. In the UK if the service is good I leave a tip. If it isn't then I don't. From my (limited) experience in the US it looks like you have to tip regardless. If that's the tipping culture then that culture is rotten. >>The service is so, so much better in the U.S. because of tipping. Honest question - do you consider waiters who ask you if you need anything every 2 minutes "good"? >> The service at restaurants everywhere in Europe was at best mediocre What's your opinion on restaurants in Poland? Was the service better or worse than in Spain? How was it compared to Czechia and Slovakia?
- explodes 1y agoHaving been to Europe multiple times, hard disagree. I don't know why you had bad experiences everywhere, but I have hardly had any.
- 1y ago
- flanked-evergl 1y ago> Tipping is a thing of the past. This statement is just not factual without some qualification. Where I live, and in the US in general, tipping is not a thing of the past. You can say you wish it was, you can say it should be, but what you said is not factual.
- petercooper 1y agoI agree with your post. But.. I'm from the UK and travel in the US a lot and US service is much better. I've never had to chase up the check or had to go and search for staff to serve me after sitting there for ten minutes. These are common occurrences in the UK for me. Ideally, tipping wouldn't exist and everything would be priced in, but pragmatically, incentives grant extra benefits to both parties. Potential for more money for the server, better service (and the ability to punish bad service) for the customer. (I know everyone making similar observations is getting voted down, so I appreciate I may simply be far off the bell curve on this and the majority experience the total opposite. But it's my reality.)
- olddustytrail 1y agoBut people do tip at restaurants in the UK. So what are you saying is the difference?
- NicuCalcea 1y agoSome people do, but it's not necessary. I rarely tip, and if I do, it won't be the 20% that is customary in the US.
- wat10000 1y agoI’ve had fantastic service in countries where tipping is not the norm. I’ve had atrocious service in the US. UK service may be worse, but I doubt tipping is the reason for it. Good service is common in industries where tipping doesn’t happen. What makes restaurants special that their workers can’t provide good service if all of their pay comes from their employer just like everyone else’s?
- VBprogrammer 1y ago> I'm from the UK and travel in the US a lot and US service is much better. I've never had to chase up the check or had to go and search for staff to serve me after sitting there for ten minutes. These are common occurrences in the UK for me. I've had these things in the US. In fact the service generally I've had is all for show, people being really "fake nice" and / or overbearing but then forgetting drinks or food items you ordered. At least in the UK you can genuinely not tip someone without worrying about them being unable make rent..
- ponector 1y agoAlso a tip goes to the pretty face who bring you plates. However, the whole restaurant experience is made by many people: dishwasher boy, prep boy, shef, cleaning lady, etc. They should tip to cleaning lady as dirty toilet can ruin whole "experience".
- DoneWithAllThat 1y ago“Tipping is a thing of the past” is just a completely false statement, given it’s the norm in the most economically powerful country in the world and not at all u heard of elsewhere (food delivery in many countries, high end restaurants in the UK and elsewhere, etc.) If we’re being generous we can call the claim is vs. ought distinction, except the phrasing doesn’t even leave room for the ought interpretation. It’s just a falsehood (were it was true).
- ourmandave 1y agoThe Taco Johns near where I work has a tip jar outside the drive-thru window. I don't know of any other fast food place that does that.
- nozzlegear 1y agoIn my experience as a former enjoyer, Taco John's needs all the help they can get =P
- einpoklum 1y ago> and have the restaurant pay their people for their work. For that, you need the restaurant employees to be organized in a strong, independent, non-corrupt union; or a highly-upstanding restaurant owner/manager. The latter is sometimes the case, but often/usually - not. So, former is rarely the case, I'm afraid, because working-class consciousness in many countries is lacking; and forming a union is hard; and restaurant staff have a lot of churn, so by the time you get the idea to do this, or have started work on it, you might be going elsewhere. But regular restaurant clients taking owners to task about wages is definitely a thing to consider...
- pc86 1y agoWhat's crazy is that you can so confidently claim "tipping is a thing of the past" when it's... not? You can think tipping should go away, that's a completely valid viewpoint. But your statement is just objectively wrong. I see this a lot (not specific to HN) - some person doesn't like $THING, so they just declare that that thing is bad, or "a thing of the past," or whatever.
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y agoSaying something is a “thing of the past” is the same as saying that something is archaic and should go away. It’s not a declaration of fact.
- taeric 1y agoNot distinguishing between "is" and "should be" explains a lot about why programmer types have trouble with requirements. :D
- Der_Einzige 1y agoWe should be held to higher standards with our discourse than this.
- miltonlost 1y ago"Horse riding is a thing of the past" is both clearly true and also wrong if you are being incredibly obtuse. The average person is not riding a horse, but there are still horse riders. I see this a lot - some person doesn't like a phrase ("a thing of the past"), so they just misread it and take it clearly the wrong way.
- pc86 1y agoEven among the incredibly predictable "omg USA so backward tipping lol" comments here, there are a lot admitting that tipping still exists for exceptional service in certain industries. You won't find a single non-barista in the US who thinks it's reasonable for Starbucks to solicit 20% for someone pouring your coffee into a cup. But restaurants have tried the "don't tip our waiters" thing in the US and it doesn't work.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]