3 ms·

I guarantee you all your Oak Park neighbors are the type who were With Hillary in 2016 (probably calling Bernie a sexist) and voted for Biden and against progre

I guarantee you all your Oak Park neighbors are the type who were With Hillary in 2016 (probably calling Bernie a sexist) and voted for Biden and against progressive income tax in 2020. They are not leftists. You seem to be having some trouble understanding the difference between democrats, liberals, and leftists. T&K are fundamentally dishonest about the role of euclidean zoning in american cities, who supports it and why it's so powerful. Their basic project is to strip environmental and labor protections by tying them to euclidean zoning and saying "it's all the same." And by the way, they may get their way (Newsom is already forcing repeals of environmental protections in California while toasting Klein) but at the end of the day euclidean zoning will still be around, because it is supported by people who are way too powerful. Another by the way: I remember fighting the big Chicago rezoning in 2004. They had us chasing our tails by trying to double the parking requirements and letting us fight to get them back down to where they were in the old code, feeling like we won a big victory.

tptacek 1y ago
You couldn't be more wrong; this is absolutely Bernie country. In the primaries, it made Washtenaw County MI look like Maricopa County. No, I think I understand just fine what I'm talking about. Again: this is one of the 5 most progressive municipalities in the country.
- gilbetron 1y ago
  Speaking of Washtenaw County, as a resident, it is also "the leftists" that are protecting existing zoning and are the major NIMBYs. It is the "evil corporate right wingers" that want to build all kinds of housing, but are prevented from doing so. There is literally two ballot measures for next week where the left wing NIMBYs want to protect a "park" (which is literally a parking lot) from being turned into a larger library and actual green space, because we also want to build more housing as well above the library.
pj_mukh 1y ago
"I guarantee you all your Oak Park neighbors are the type who were With Hillary in 2016" Its both. That's the problem. In my neighborhood, the construction of any market rate housing will be blocked by Hillary voting land-owners and single family home owners and card-carrying Bernie Bros mad that a private developer even gets to set foot in the city. It's this alliance that has basically blocked housing in most metro cities. When it comes to 100% affordable housing, yes the Hillary voters are on their own, but those are like 1-2 headline causing projects. For every affordable housing project there are 10 market rate housing projects that never even see the light of day.
- jordanb 1y ago
  As an example when I was active in housing in Chicago one of the organizations that was with us on the left was a developer of affordable housing: https://www.bickerdike.org/ https://www.bickerdike.org/ Several of the activist actually worked for this developer. Real leftist housing rights supporters are not against developers. They are against for-profit, private equity, land banking speculators, and yeah nimby homeowners. In general we hated the Oak Park type nimby liberal more than we hated the right to be honest.
  - pj_mukh 1y ago
    “leftist housing rights supporters are not against developers.” They certainly are in my neighborhood. https://www.ourneighborhoodvoices.com/48-hills-cost-of-growth/ https://www.ourneighborhoodvoices.com/48-hills-cost-of-growt... The “private developer risk” the article derides is an enforceable approval timeline that lets private developers have bounded risk. Apparently that’s a bridge too far.
  - Hammershaft 1y ago
    In a market system, Creating a system that is "against for profit" housing developers very predictively restricts housing supply & drives up the cost of living for everyone.
athrun 1y ago
Sounds like you're just applying somewhat arbitrary purity rules to what falls into the "leftist" bucket or not. I believe that for most people "leftists" means "on the left side of the political spectrum", and so, in the US, it would be a strict superset of democrats & Liberals. But for you, it sounds like it's only subset of these, based on some criteria you haven't made explicit. Fair enough, but that's a somewhat non-standard definition.
- woooooo 1y ago
  It's standard among self-described leftists, to distinguish themselves from establishment liberals. I'm not even very far left and I identify with the term because party leadership are all 80yo and out of touch.
  - tptacek 1y ago
    "Liberal" is an epithet here too (I'm a liberal, for whatever that's worth).
    - woooooo 1y ago
      For what it's worth back, a lot of the opposition towards "establishment libs" is based more on optics than policy IMO. Voters feel ripped off by the establishment. Running on "we're the establishment and we're here to help" is a loser, and letting Trump be the rebel is malpractice.
    - johnisgood 1y ago
      I am a libertarian (anarcho-capitalist) but people do not know the differences and similarities to liberal, because both has the prefix "liber".
      - Hammershaft 1y ago
        Both ideologies evolved from the same source of classical liberalism, and still share plenty in common today.

tptacek 1y ago

You couldn't be more wrong; this is absolutely Bernie country. In the primaries, it made Washtenaw County MI look like Maricopa County. No, I think I understand just fine what I'm talking about. Again: this is one of the 5 most progressive municipalities in the country.

gilbetron 1y ago
Speaking of Washtenaw County, as a resident, it is also "the leftists" that are protecting existing zoning and are the major NIMBYs. It is the "evil corporate right wingers" that want to build all kinds of housing, but are prevented from doing so. There is literally two ballot measures for next week where the left wing NIMBYs want to protect a "park" (which is literally a parking lot) from being turned into a larger library and actual green space, because we also want to build more housing as well above the library.

pj_mukh 1y ago

"I guarantee you all your Oak Park neighbors are the type who were With Hillary in 2016" Its both. That's the problem. In my neighborhood, the construction of any market rate housing will be blocked by Hillary voting land-owners and single family home owners and card-carrying Bernie Bros mad that a private developer even gets to set foot in the city. It's this alliance that has basically blocked housing in most metro cities. When it comes to 100% affordable housing, yes the Hillary voters are on their own, but those are like 1-2 headline causing projects. For every affordable housing project there are 10 market rate housing projects that never even see the light of day.

jordanb 1y ago
As an example when I was active in housing in Chicago one of the organizations that was with us on the left was a developer of affordable housing: https://www.bickerdike.org/ https://www.bickerdike.org/ Several of the activist actually worked for this developer. Real leftist housing rights supporters are not against developers. They are against for-profit, private equity, land banking speculators, and yeah nimby homeowners. In general we hated the Oak Park type nimby liberal more than we hated the right to be honest.
- pj_mukh 1y ago
  “leftist housing rights supporters are not against developers.” They certainly are in my neighborhood. https://www.ourneighborhoodvoices.com/48-hills-cost-of-growth/ https://www.ourneighborhoodvoices.com/48-hills-cost-of-growt... The “private developer risk” the article derides is an enforceable approval timeline that lets private developers have bounded risk. Apparently that’s a bridge too far.
- Hammershaft 1y ago
  In a market system, Creating a system that is "against for profit" housing developers very predictively restricts housing supply & drives up the cost of living for everyone.

athrun 1y ago

Sounds like you're just applying somewhat arbitrary purity rules to what falls into the "leftist" bucket or not. I believe that for most people "leftists" means "on the left side of the political spectrum", and so, in the US, it would be a strict superset of democrats & Liberals. But for you, it sounds like it's only subset of these, based on some criteria you haven't made explicit. Fair enough, but that's a somewhat non-standard definition.

woooooo 1y ago
It's standard among self-described leftists, to distinguish themselves from establishment liberals. I'm not even very far left and I identify with the term because party leadership are all 80yo and out of touch.
- tptacek 1y ago
  "Liberal" is an epithet here too (I'm a liberal, for whatever that's worth).
  - woooooo 1y ago
    For what it's worth back, a lot of the opposition towards "establishment libs" is based more on optics than policy IMO. Voters feel ripped off by the establishment. Running on "we're the establishment and we're here to help" is a loser, and letting Trump be the rebel is malpractice.
  - johnisgood 1y ago
    I am a libertarian (anarcho-capitalist) but people do not know the differences and similarities to liberal, because both has the prefix "liber".
    - Hammershaft 1y ago
      Both ideologies evolved from the same source of classical liberalism, and still share plenty in common today.