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Yeah, pretty sure a government won’t bail me out if I invested in a stock so much that it would crush me if the stock went down. If buying a house is an investm

Yeah, pretty sure a government won’t bail me out if I invested in a stock so much that it would crush me if the stock went down. If buying a house is an investment and not for living, then it should be treated like it is.

JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> pretty sure a government won’t bail me out if I invested in a stock https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenspan_put https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenspan_put More pointedly, you're not in a position to block equity capital markets reforms in the way homeowners are in respect of housing reform.
- msgodel 1y ago
  Yeah everyone involved in that should have been shot. That's part of what led to the situation we have today.
  - dmix 1y ago
    Short term thinking dominates economics these days. Managing the current downturn is most important, when people ask about longterm implications do a bunch of hand wavy stuff about it being temporary and then kick the can to the next guys who do the same thing.
    - vkou 1y ago
      > Short term thinking dominates economics these days. Especially among people criticizing the response to 2008/2020. Failing to mitigate sickness in capital markets and the economy in the short term would have inflicted far more damage in the long term.
      - msgodel 1y ago
        [flagged]
        vkou 1y ago
        You are assuming that there was any good way of dealing with a year where nobody went to work because of a global pandemic. The economic pain of inflation was far preferable to the economic pain of active economic destruction, as short-term disruption to business would have resulted in long-term destruction of real value. It was far less painful long-term to print money and have the economy on pause for a year, with bills still getting paid, than it would have been to have the economy collapse over that year. If it weren't for those mitigations, we'd all still be sitting around a tire fire, trading bottle caps for ammunition.
        msgodel 1y ago
        We're just going to have to agree to disagree here.
- willis936 1y ago
  Homeowners shouldn't be either. Locals should have less of a say in zoning decisions since they've demonstrated they won't act in their community's interest. Also, making the public hold the bag in a bubble is perhaps the most sinister form of theft imaginable.
dingnuts 1y ago
people call buying a house to live in an investment but that's because they don't know the technical term is a "hedge" so you know: most localities do treat the house you live in very differently from a tax perspective than they do any additional properties you might have, because everyone is born short housing, until they own 1 place to live. so yes, the proposed bailouts up thread would be for people who bought a house because they didn't want to be short housing; a hedge, not an investment. also if the house has hedges then your hedges are a hedge. I'll see myself out
- susiecambria 1y ago
  Buying a house is more than an "investment" though: It's achieving the American dream. And while this dream might have been a farce, it's like everything else in that you hear it enough combined with not understanding the economics and policies underlying home ownership and the lie is reality. And let's not even get to your point about hedges. I don't know many people that can define it let alone consider housing as a hedge.
  - SR2Z 1y ago
    Basically everyone considers housing as a hedge - homes are expected to grow steadily in value or at the very least not depreciate. This is not a good policy goal, but the fact is that the wealth of the American middle class is mostly stored in property, and tanking property values would be a disaster for a broad swath of society which otherwise only has long-term retirement accounts to rely on. They will vote to protect their interests, no matter how badly it screws their kids or contributes to homelessness.
  - willis936 1y ago
    If the house price goes down you don't lose the house. You just end up paying more for it than you could have if the price was lower when you bought it. You are just keeping your promise to pay your mortgage. This whole "unrealized gains need to be compensated" thing is insane. Responsible policymakers would ignore such greedy, self-centered, anti-community sentiments.
- 1y ago
kelnos 1y ago
It isn't, though. Housing is a basic human need; investing in the stock market is not.

JumpCrisscross 1y ago

> pretty sure a government won’t bail me out if I invested in a stock https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenspan_put https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenspan_put More pointedly, you're not in a position to block equity capital markets reforms in the way homeowners are in respect of housing reform.

msgodel 1y ago
Yeah everyone involved in that should have been shot. That's part of what led to the situation we have today.
- dmix 1y ago
  Short term thinking dominates economics these days. Managing the current downturn is most important, when people ask about longterm implications do a bunch of hand wavy stuff about it being temporary and then kick the can to the next guys who do the same thing.
  - vkou 1y ago
    > Short term thinking dominates economics these days. Especially among people criticizing the response to 2008/2020. Failing to mitigate sickness in capital markets and the economy in the short term would have inflicted far more damage in the long term.
    - msgodel 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - vkou 1y ago
        You are assuming that there was any good way of dealing with a year where nobody went to work because of a global pandemic. The economic pain of inflation was far preferable to the economic pain of active economic destruction, as short-term disruption to business would have resulted in long-term destruction of real value. It was far less painful long-term to print money and have the economy on pause for a year, with bills still getting paid, than it would have been to have the economy collapse over that year. If it weren't for those mitigations, we'd all still be sitting around a tire fire, trading bottle caps for ammunition.
        msgodel 1y ago
        We're just going to have to agree to disagree here.
willis936 1y ago
Homeowners shouldn't be either. Locals should have less of a say in zoning decisions since they've demonstrated they won't act in their community's interest. Also, making the public hold the bag in a bubble is perhaps the most sinister form of theft imaginable.

dingnuts 1y ago

people call buying a house to live in an investment but that's because they don't know the technical term is a "hedge" so you know: most localities do treat the house you live in very differently from a tax perspective than they do any additional properties you might have, because everyone is born short housing, until they own 1 place to live. so yes, the proposed bailouts up thread would be for people who bought a house because they didn't want to be short housing; a hedge, not an investment. also if the house has hedges then your hedges are a hedge. I'll see myself out

susiecambria 1y ago
Buying a house is more than an "investment" though: It's achieving the American dream. And while this dream might have been a farce, it's like everything else in that you hear it enough combined with not understanding the economics and policies underlying home ownership and the lie is reality. And let's not even get to your point about hedges. I don't know many people that can define it let alone consider housing as a hedge.
- SR2Z 1y ago
  Basically everyone considers housing as a hedge - homes are expected to grow steadily in value or at the very least not depreciate. This is not a good policy goal, but the fact is that the wealth of the American middle class is mostly stored in property, and tanking property values would be a disaster for a broad swath of society which otherwise only has long-term retirement accounts to rely on. They will vote to protect their interests, no matter how badly it screws their kids or contributes to homelessness.
- willis936 1y ago
  If the house price goes down you don't lose the house. You just end up paying more for it than you could have if the price was lower when you bought it. You are just keeping your promise to pay your mortgage. This whole "unrealized gains need to be compensated" thing is insane. Responsible policymakers would ignore such greedy, self-centered, anti-community sentiments.
1y ago

kelnos 1y ago

It isn't, though. Housing is a basic human need; investing in the stock market is not.