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For a start, stop buying those products: vote with your wallet. Do you own a phone that's easily rooted? Who else does? What about your WiFi routers? Internet

For a start, stop buying those products: vote with your wallet. Do you own a phone that's easily rooted? Who else does? What about your WiFi routers? Internet modem? AirTags? Smart home appliances?

esseph 1y ago
Rooting a phone fails certain security checks that prevent a lot of banking apps from working on your device.
- necovek 1y ago
  Yes, it's equivalent to running a computer with admin access, and most banking web sites have no issue with that. Still, my point was not about running a rooted phone with unlocked bootloader (secure boot disabled on a pc equivalent), but whether if this is possible accounts in your purchasing decision.
  - tsimionescu 1y ago
    Before we had secure phones, we used to get hardware gadgets from banks in order to secure access. Now that phones are secure enough, the phones act as the root of trust (and, unfortunately, SMS does as well...).
    - necovek 1y ago
      Yes, and phones are full of vulnerabilities because vendors provide security updates only for 2-5 years (high end being rare), thus making this a moot point.
      - charcircuit 1y ago
        The security measures do not need to be perfect. As long as fraud remains at a reasonable level it should be fine.
        necovek 1y ago
        Agreed. Full disk encryption on a device you have full control of is sufficient. Containerization helps if you install untrusted apps. Not having root helps if you install untrusted apps (either vulnerabilities/exploitable or malicious) as root.
        esseph 1y ago
        Containers are not security. Don't trust containers to have the same level of isolation as a VM.
        charcircuit 1y ago
        Containers are for security, but they rely on the kernel+ being secure. VMs rely on the hypervisor+ being secure.
        esseph 1y ago
        https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26076629 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26076629
- fsflover 1y ago
  How about switching your bank if it forces you to give away your freedom for no security benefits?
  - esseph 1y ago
    Switch to the other bank with the same system? They're all like that.
    - fsflover 1y ago
      If all banks are like that in your country, you should complain to the legislators.
userbinator 1y ago
In the early 2010s the majority of Androids were easily rootable and the ROM-modding community flourished as a result.

For a start, stop buying those products: vote with your wallet. Do you own a phone that's easily rooted? Who else does? What about your WiFi routers? Internet modem? AirTags? Smart home appliances?

esseph 1y ago

Rooting a phone fails certain security checks that prevent a lot of banking apps from working on your device.

necovek 1y ago
Yes, it's equivalent to running a computer with admin access, and most banking web sites have no issue with that. Still, my point was not about running a rooted phone with unlocked bootloader (secure boot disabled on a pc equivalent), but whether if this is possible accounts in your purchasing decision.
- tsimionescu 1y ago
  Before we had secure phones, we used to get hardware gadgets from banks in order to secure access. Now that phones are secure enough, the phones act as the root of trust (and, unfortunately, SMS does as well...).
  - necovek 1y ago
    Yes, and phones are full of vulnerabilities because vendors provide security updates only for 2-5 years (high end being rare), thus making this a moot point.
    - charcircuit 1y ago
      The security measures do not need to be perfect. As long as fraud remains at a reasonable level it should be fine.
      - necovek 1y ago
        Agreed. Full disk encryption on a device you have full control of is sufficient. Containerization helps if you install untrusted apps. Not having root helps if you install untrusted apps (either vulnerabilities/exploitable or malicious) as root.
        esseph 1y ago
        Containers are not security. Don't trust containers to have the same level of isolation as a VM.
        charcircuit 1y ago
        Containers are for security, but they rely on the kernel+ being secure. VMs rely on the hypervisor+ being secure.
        esseph 1y ago
        https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26076629 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26076629
fsflover 1y ago
How about switching your bank if it forces you to give away your freedom for no security benefits?
- esseph 1y ago
  Switch to the other bank with the same system? They're all like that.
  - fsflover 1y ago
    If all banks are like that in your country, you should complain to the legislators.

userbinator 1y ago

In the early 2010s the majority of Androids were easily rootable and the ROM-modding community flourished as a result.