5 ms·

I'm here to if anyone has any questions about the partnership, the reasons behind the investment, the vision, or anything else.

jpmc 14y ago
Jason looking long term do you see an expansion of the school with satellite campuses. Clearly one of the benefits of the current location is access to the talented resource pool in Chicago. Chicago, Denver and Kansas City are some of the few places in the Midwest that have an ecosystem, though small in comparison to the west coast,to support and encourage budding builders.
- jasonfried 14y ago
  No plans to expand outside of Chicago right now. We’re focused on quality and nailing the learning and teaching experience. One location makes that possible. We're interested in quality over growth. Expansion is dilution, not concentration. People from all over the world are coming to Chicago to attend The Starter League. So far people from 25 states and 12 countries have made the investment in themselves to learn what it is The Starter League teaches.
  - brittohalloran 14y ago
    This focus on quality and keeping it small is the right thing to do. What does the acceptance rate look like though? I think after this affiliation there's going to be a lot more applicants and therefore the acceptance rate is going to go down. Maybe its a question for Neal and Mike, but what's the process for selecting applicants?
    - nealsales 14y ago
      The application at http://starterleague.com/apply http://starterleague.com/apply is the first step. As we review applications we choose people to interview either in person, via skype, or by phone. We are looking for passionate and persistent people that are willing to spend three intense, immersive months in Chicago.
fumar 14y ago
I have worked with several startups in Chicago in non-technical roles. This is a great way for me to learn some of the basics. Will be there be any sort of scholarships for The Starter League?
- jasonfried 14y ago
  We've discussed this, but we don't have a definitive answer right now. One thing we believe is that it's important for people to make some sacrifices to be here. We want totally committed students. Figuring out how to pay is a great test to see how committed someone is.
  - fumar 14y ago
    You are correct, sacrifices should be made to achieve something meaningful. Could I trade any sort of work for a class? (ie: administrative, janitorial, chef)
    - sachitgupta 14y ago
      That's the wrong way to do this: you're basically asking him to go through your skills, then go through his business and find where they intersect so you can help him. It's take away one of his most important resources, time. Instead, research everything about 37Signals and Starter League (example: http://charliehoehn.com/2009/01/08/how-to-hack-someones-mind/ http://charliehoehn.com/2009/01/08/how-to-hack-someones-mind...), come up 3 ideas that benefit them, and pitch them as someone who will get it done and they won't have to manage. When contacting busy people, you'll get far better returns with this approach. I'd go into more detail, but Charlie already wrote the roadmap for doing this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5qUR3tpEdA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5qUR3tpEdA
      - fumar 14y ago
        Thanks for your feedback. I was doing it all wrong. I tweeted at Mr.Fried to view a proposal for work. vpena.sqsp.com/perfectforstarterleague/
ovatsug25 14y ago
How is The Starter League different from DevBootcamp? DevBootcamp: http://devbootcamp.com/ http://devbootcamp.com/ http://m.techcrunch.com/2012/05/10/dev-boot-camp-is-a-ruby-success/ http://m.techcrunch.com/2012/05/10/dev-boot-camp-is-a-ruby-s...
- brackin 14y ago
  I believe Code Academy was around before DevBootcamp, since they've been around for a couple of years now. They teach more than just Ruby, they have a co-working space and are based in Chicago.
  - choxi 14y ago
    DevBootcamp teaches you the full stack for being a Rails developer too, not just Ruby. I'd say they differentiate by getting 80-90% of their students entry level development jobs after and that's a core part of their bootcamps.
    - morningwarrior 14y ago
      "DevBootcamp teaches you the full stack for being a Rails developer too, not just Ruby." We teach way more than just Ruby. Our Web App Development course covers the same material as the Dev Bootcamp offering. We also have a User Experience course and two HTML/CSS classes. Over the past year our students have wanted us to teach MORE Ruby which is in part why we have finally added an Advanced Ruby offering to our lineup. Another differentiating factor is that we are not focused on just helping our students get jobs. Students who apply to The Starter League have a lot of different goals in mind. Some want jobs, some have startups that they are looking to grow or get off the ground, and some just want the ability to take what's in their head and make it real through software. Our priority at The Starter League is to create the environment where all these goals can thrive. For students who want jobs, we have an environment that can helps network with the local community to find those opportunities. For those who want to build companies, we are located in 1871 (http://1871.com http://1871.com) which is the new mecca of Chicago digital entrepreneurship. We have a lot of respect for what Shereef has been able to do with DevBootcamp, and we wish him continued success! It's great that the software education landscape has grown this much in just a year's time.
cs702 14y ago
jasonfried: You write, "this isn’t a traditional investment. We’re not looking to get out, we’re looking to stay in." I have to disagree with your choice of words: the investment you guys just made is the truly traditional, old-fashioned kind. Consider what John Maynard Keynes wrote about the difference between the way in which professional investors invest in a business, versus the way in which entrepreneurs since time immemorial have committed capital to business endeavors. Most professional investors, Keynes wrote: are, in fact, largely concerned, not with making superior long-term forecasts of the probable yield of an investment over its whole life, but with foreseeing changes in the conventional basis of valuation a short time ahead of the general public. They are concerned, not with what an investment is really worth to a man who buys it "for keeps," but with what the market will value it at, under the influence of mass psychology, three months or a year hence.[1] Before the advent of financial markets, all investments were made "for keeps" by people looking to "stay in." Congratulations on making a traditional investment. -- PS. FWIW, Keynes accumulated a fortune by investing his own capital during his lifetime. -- [1] http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0300071h/printall.html http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0300071h/printall.html -- Edits: added more context and clarified my key point.
- jasonfried 14y ago
  Fair point. I'm glad you knew what I actually meant ;) I've updated the post to reflect more of what I meant. This isn't the type of tech investment you normally read about.
  - cs702 14y ago
    Thanks for doing that, and thanks for writing the post. We need more people thinking this way, sincerely trying to build businesses and organizations of lasting value :-)
- pilsetnieks 14y ago
  I don't see how Keynes' description contradicts Jason's notion of traditional investing.
ThomPete 14y ago
Good stuff Jason If you are getting more personally involved. How are you going to make sure that people act on your general advice instead of thinking that they have to do exactly like you?
- jasonfried 14y ago
  I'm not part of this to make sure anyone follows my advice. I'm part of this to offer my advice.
choxi 14y ago
It sounds like they're profitable and I thought 37S was a proponent of slow growth, no hostility intended but I'm confused about the goals of 37S and Starter League with this agreement. Presumably if its an equity investment you expect some kind of liquidation down the road right?
- jasonfried 14y ago
  No liquidation, no. Financially we'll participate in the distributions (The Starter League is an LLC) as long as the company is profitable. But this is way more than that - this is an investment in helping other people learn and for us to become better teachers. The returns from that will be far greater than the financial returns.
  - pirateking 14y ago
    Major respect for that attitude - short sightedness is toxic. This is investment and education done right.
SMrF 14y ago
I live in Chicago and I'm an experienced developer. I want to start a company but I don't want to go the seed funding route because I want to create a profitable small business, not a startup. Is there a Starter League for me? Not that the non-existence of such a program would stop me...
- ehsanu1 14y ago
  This may work for you: http://nreduce.com/ http://nreduce.com/ I took part this time, it was a good experience overall, especially considering it was their first time.

jpmc 14y ago

Jason looking long term do you see an expansion of the school with satellite campuses. Clearly one of the benefits of the current location is access to the talented resource pool in Chicago. Chicago, Denver and Kansas City are some of the few places in the Midwest that have an ecosystem, though small in comparison to the west coast,to support and encourage budding builders.

jasonfried 14y ago
No plans to expand outside of Chicago right now. We’re focused on quality and nailing the learning and teaching experience. One location makes that possible. We're interested in quality over growth. Expansion is dilution, not concentration. People from all over the world are coming to Chicago to attend The Starter League. So far people from 25 states and 12 countries have made the investment in themselves to learn what it is The Starter League teaches.
- brittohalloran 14y ago
  This focus on quality and keeping it small is the right thing to do. What does the acceptance rate look like though? I think after this affiliation there's going to be a lot more applicants and therefore the acceptance rate is going to go down. Maybe its a question for Neal and Mike, but what's the process for selecting applicants?
  - nealsales 14y ago
    The application at http://starterleague.com/apply http://starterleague.com/apply is the first step. As we review applications we choose people to interview either in person, via skype, or by phone. We are looking for passionate and persistent people that are willing to spend three intense, immersive months in Chicago.

fumar 14y ago

I have worked with several startups in Chicago in non-technical roles. This is a great way for me to learn some of the basics. Will be there be any sort of scholarships for The Starter League?

jasonfried 14y ago
We've discussed this, but we don't have a definitive answer right now. One thing we believe is that it's important for people to make some sacrifices to be here. We want totally committed students. Figuring out how to pay is a great test to see how committed someone is.
- fumar 14y ago
  You are correct, sacrifices should be made to achieve something meaningful. Could I trade any sort of work for a class? (ie: administrative, janitorial, chef)
  - sachitgupta 14y ago
    That's the wrong way to do this: you're basically asking him to go through your skills, then go through his business and find where they intersect so you can help him. It's take away one of his most important resources, time. Instead, research everything about 37Signals and Starter League (example: http://charliehoehn.com/2009/01/08/how-to-hack-someones-mind/ http://charliehoehn.com/2009/01/08/how-to-hack-someones-mind...), come up 3 ideas that benefit them, and pitch them as someone who will get it done and they won't have to manage. When contacting busy people, you'll get far better returns with this approach. I'd go into more detail, but Charlie already wrote the roadmap for doing this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5qUR3tpEdA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5qUR3tpEdA
    - fumar 14y ago
      Thanks for your feedback. I was doing it all wrong. I tweeted at Mr.Fried to view a proposal for work. vpena.sqsp.com/perfectforstarterleague/

ovatsug25 14y ago

How is The Starter League different from DevBootcamp? DevBootcamp: http://devbootcamp.com/ http://devbootcamp.com/ http://m.techcrunch.com/2012/05/10/dev-boot-camp-is-a-ruby-success/ http://m.techcrunch.com/2012/05/10/dev-boot-camp-is-a-ruby-s...

brackin 14y ago
I believe Code Academy was around before DevBootcamp, since they've been around for a couple of years now. They teach more than just Ruby, they have a co-working space and are based in Chicago.
- choxi 14y ago
  DevBootcamp teaches you the full stack for being a Rails developer too, not just Ruby. I'd say they differentiate by getting 80-90% of their students entry level development jobs after and that's a core part of their bootcamps.
  - morningwarrior 14y ago
    "DevBootcamp teaches you the full stack for being a Rails developer too, not just Ruby." We teach way more than just Ruby. Our Web App Development course covers the same material as the Dev Bootcamp offering. We also have a User Experience course and two HTML/CSS classes. Over the past year our students have wanted us to teach MORE Ruby which is in part why we have finally added an Advanced Ruby offering to our lineup. Another differentiating factor is that we are not focused on just helping our students get jobs. Students who apply to The Starter League have a lot of different goals in mind. Some want jobs, some have startups that they are looking to grow or get off the ground, and some just want the ability to take what's in their head and make it real through software. Our priority at The Starter League is to create the environment where all these goals can thrive. For students who want jobs, we have an environment that can helps network with the local community to find those opportunities. For those who want to build companies, we are located in 1871 (http://1871.com http://1871.com) which is the new mecca of Chicago digital entrepreneurship. We have a lot of respect for what Shereef has been able to do with DevBootcamp, and we wish him continued success! It's great that the software education landscape has grown this much in just a year's time.

cs702 14y ago

jasonfried: You write, "this isn’t a traditional investment. We’re not looking to get out, we’re looking to stay in." I have to disagree with your choice of words: the investment you guys just made is the truly traditional, old-fashioned kind. Consider what John Maynard Keynes wrote about the difference between the way in which professional investors invest in a business, versus the way in which entrepreneurs since time immemorial have committed capital to business endeavors. Most professional investors, Keynes wrote: are, in fact, largely concerned, not with making superior long-term forecasts of the probable yield of an investment over its whole life, but with foreseeing changes in the conventional basis of valuation a short time ahead of the general public. They are concerned, not with what an investment is really worth to a man who buys it "for keeps," but with what the market will value it at, under the influence of mass psychology, three months or a year hence.[1] Before the advent of financial markets, all investments were made "for keeps" by people looking to "stay in." Congratulations on making a traditional investment. -- PS. FWIW, Keynes accumulated a fortune by investing his own capital during his lifetime. -- [1] http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0300071h/printall.html http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks03/0300071h/printall.html -- Edits: added more context and clarified my key point.

jasonfried 14y ago
Fair point. I'm glad you knew what I actually meant ;) I've updated the post to reflect more of what I meant. This isn't the type of tech investment you normally read about.
- cs702 14y ago
  Thanks for doing that, and thanks for writing the post. We need more people thinking this way, sincerely trying to build businesses and organizations of lasting value :-)
pilsetnieks 14y ago
I don't see how Keynes' description contradicts Jason's notion of traditional investing.

ThomPete 14y ago

Good stuff Jason If you are getting more personally involved. How are you going to make sure that people act on your general advice instead of thinking that they have to do exactly like you?

jasonfried 14y ago
I'm not part of this to make sure anyone follows my advice. I'm part of this to offer my advice.

choxi 14y ago

It sounds like they're profitable and I thought 37S was a proponent of slow growth, no hostility intended but I'm confused about the goals of 37S and Starter League with this agreement. Presumably if its an equity investment you expect some kind of liquidation down the road right?

jasonfried 14y ago
No liquidation, no. Financially we'll participate in the distributions (The Starter League is an LLC) as long as the company is profitable. But this is way more than that - this is an investment in helping other people learn and for us to become better teachers. The returns from that will be far greater than the financial returns.
- pirateking 14y ago
  Major respect for that attitude - short sightedness is toxic. This is investment and education done right.

SMrF 14y ago

I live in Chicago and I'm an experienced developer. I want to start a company but I don't want to go the seed funding route because I want to create a profitable small business, not a startup. Is there a Starter League for me? Not that the non-existence of such a program would stop me...

ehsanu1 14y ago
This may work for you: http://nreduce.com/ http://nreduce.com/ I took part this time, it was a good experience overall, especially considering it was their first time.