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> Australia already requires you to register for voting and other things, so the trivial solution here is: give out anonymous time-limited tokens from the gov s

by nojs 1y ago

> Australia already requires you to register for voting and other things, so the trivial solution here is: give out anonymous time-limited tokens from the gov site Which “gov site”? Registering for voting does not give you an electronic log in of any kind.

a_bonobo 1y ago
Not that poster but since Covid, most people have a registration on the MyGov app that handles medicare, tax etc. You could easily add a one-time token mechanism to that app
viraptor 1y ago
My gov id. I'm not saying that there's currently a registration online for voting, but that since you're required to register anyway, the system exists that can be extended to generating those tokens. And realistically, most people do have mygov id already.
- inopinatus 1y ago
  > most people do have mygov id It was renamed myid, and less than half of all Australians use it. > no logging If you think that the AIC/NIC doesn't have its tentacles in there already, then I have a bridge to sell you.
  - viraptor 1y ago
    It was almost exactly half last year. The number will only go up. I'm not sure what you mean by the logging part. Yes they can either log or not log it. The system can be designed for either. If your default position is "government will always lie given the chance" that's fine I guess. But then you need to assume they're monitoring your ISP anyway.
  - _carbyau_ 1y ago
    There needs to be some terms clarified. mygov vs mygovid vs myid. Agreed, "myid" used to be called "mygovid". But myid/mygovid is NOT mygov. I'm guessing the rename is likely because of that confusion. mygov usage is high, 26 million accounts, according to [1] 2023 report. Myid usage seems middling. 13 million according to [2] 2024 article. Which platform to use for what and how I leave to you. I don't want this. I don't want the government's aim for auditable provability of every item watched/interacted with in the name of "won't somebody think of the children!!!" level of authoritarianism. There are plenty of households without kids. Why are they having to pay a privacy price? [0] https://my.gov.au/en/about/help/digital-id https://my.gov.au/en/about/help/digital-id [1] https://my.gov.au/content/dam/mygov/documents/audit/response-to-the-mygov-user-audit-report.pdf https://my.gov.au/content/dam/mygov/documents/audit/response... [2] https://www.ato.gov.au/media-centre/mygovid-being-renamed-myid https://www.ato.gov.au/media-centre/mygovid-being-renamed-my...
    - __jochen__ 1y ago
      I agree the naming is a mess. There is the Australian Digital ID system (https://www.digitalidsystem.gov.au/how-the-system-works https://www.digitalidsystem.gov.au/how-the-system-works) which allows third party providers. Whatever the capabilities of the Australian government ID services, there is a way to issue privacy-preserving tokens that could do all the things you'd need without being trackable the system was properly designed. (I have not studied the protocols of the Digital ID spec to say whether that's the case).
      - _carbyau_ 1y ago
        I agree with you that technically it can be done. Which is why I said: "I don't want the government's aim for auditable provability" I mean, technically they could do it and provide at least a modicum of privacy protection. But I will bet they won't because whoever is implementing it will want to be able to point to specifics - specific people, specific times, specific places - so they can cover their arse come the next moral panic moment.

by nojs 1y ago

a_bonobo 1y ago

Not that poster but since Covid, most people have a registration on the MyGov app that handles medicare, tax etc. You could easily add a one-time token mechanism to that app

viraptor 1y ago

My gov id. I'm not saying that there's currently a registration online for voting, but that since you're required to register anyway, the system exists that can be extended to generating those tokens. And realistically, most people do have mygov id already.

inopinatus 1y ago
> most people do have mygov id It was renamed myid, and less than half of all Australians use it. > no logging If you think that the AIC/NIC doesn't have its tentacles in there already, then I have a bridge to sell you.
- viraptor 1y ago
  It was almost exactly half last year. The number will only go up. I'm not sure what you mean by the logging part. Yes they can either log or not log it. The system can be designed for either. If your default position is "government will always lie given the chance" that's fine I guess. But then you need to assume they're monitoring your ISP anyway.
- _carbyau_ 1y ago
  There needs to be some terms clarified. mygov vs mygovid vs myid. Agreed, "myid" used to be called "mygovid". But myid/mygovid is NOT mygov. I'm guessing the rename is likely because of that confusion. mygov usage is high, 26 million accounts, according to [1] 2023 report. Myid usage seems middling. 13 million according to [2] 2024 article. Which platform to use for what and how I leave to you. I don't want this. I don't want the government's aim for auditable provability of every item watched/interacted with in the name of "won't somebody think of the children!!!" level of authoritarianism. There are plenty of households without kids. Why are they having to pay a privacy price? [0] https://my.gov.au/en/about/help/digital-id https://my.gov.au/en/about/help/digital-id [1] https://my.gov.au/content/dam/mygov/documents/audit/response-to-the-mygov-user-audit-report.pdf https://my.gov.au/content/dam/mygov/documents/audit/response... [2] https://www.ato.gov.au/media-centre/mygovid-being-renamed-myid https://www.ato.gov.au/media-centre/mygovid-being-renamed-my...
  - __jochen__ 1y ago
    I agree the naming is a mess. There is the Australian Digital ID system (https://www.digitalidsystem.gov.au/how-the-system-works https://www.digitalidsystem.gov.au/how-the-system-works) which allows third party providers. Whatever the capabilities of the Australian government ID services, there is a way to issue privacy-preserving tokens that could do all the things you'd need without being trackable the system was properly designed. (I have not studied the protocols of the Digital ID spec to say whether that's the case).
    - _carbyau_ 1y ago
      I agree with you that technically it can be done. Which is why I said: "I don't want the government's aim for auditable provability" I mean, technically they could do it and provide at least a modicum of privacy protection. But I will bet they won't because whoever is implementing it will want to be able to point to specifics - specific people, specific times, specific places - so they can cover their arse come the next moral panic moment.