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> A huge part of the Exodus was the Arab league telling Arabs to leave their homes in 1948 That's a myth. It simply isn't true. Israeli historians have gone th
by DiogenesKynikos 1y ago
> A huge part of the Exodus was the Arab league telling Arabs to leave their homes in 1948
That's a myth. It simply isn't true. Israeli historians have gone through the reasons why Palestinians left every town, and almost all of them were either expelled at gunpoint or fled in the face of advancing Zionist / Israeli forces. Only the wealthiest Palestinian families had the means to leave in advance, as they saw the war coming.
> ben gurion asked Arabs to stay and peacefully join the new country which is why Israel is 20% Arab.
This is such an absurd claim to anyone who is even remotely familiar with Ben Gurion's life and politics. Ben Gurion was one of the most important supporters of the idea of expelling Palestinians.
> The other thing you’ve omitted is the greater number of Jews that were expelled from Arab states.
They were expelled in the decades afterwards, as a consequence of the bad blood Israel created throughout the Arab world with the expulsion of the Palestinians. In any case, two wrongs do not make a right, and the treatment of Jews in the Arab world after Israel's establishment does not justify Israel's ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians in 1947-48.
> you haven’t asked for them to be able to return either
If they want to, they should be able to. But they don't want to, so this is a moot point.
> they would be killed, as is typical for anybody who doesn’t follow or has left Islam in Arabic countries
This is a historically ignorant claim. Muslim countries were historically more religiously tolerant than Christian countries. That changed for the Jews in the Arab world for two reasons: the foundation of Israel and imported antisemitic ideas from Europe.
Palestine is actually a major counterexample to your claim about Muslim countries. There are many Christian Palestinians, and they have been very prominent in the Palestinian national movement (Edward Said was Christian, for example). If you've followed the news, you'll know that Israel has repeatedly bombed Christian churches in Gaza, which is why the Israeli government got into a row with the Pope recently.
> UNRWA staff are members of hamas
This is like saying that McDonald's staff are murderers. A tiny number of UNWRA staff (you can literally count them on two hands) were alleged to be Hamas members, out of 30k employees.
> UNRWA schools teach children to desire to be martyrs
The idea that Palestinians have to be taught by the UN to hate Israel is absurd. They hate Israel for the same reason Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto hated Germany. The UN does a remarkable job of instituting neutral education in that environment, and is constantly bending over backwards to appease Israel, including allowing Israel to review their educational materials and list of employees.
> The very obvious solution is UNRWA should be disbanded.
It's the obvious solution if you want to starve and immiserate the Palestinians.
- nailer 1y ago> > A huge part of the Exodus was the Arab league telling Arabs to leave their homes in 1948 while they destroyed the new Jewish state, because they didn’t just want Jordan and the proposed second Arab state from British Palestine they wanted everything from the river to the sea, which probably would’ve destroyed all the jewish people (witness all the violence pre-1948 from Arabs to Jews). > That's a myth. It simply isn't true. What part? That the Arab league wanted full control of multiethnic Palestine? That they tried to stop Israel being created? That they intended to make Israel a warzone? > > ben gurion asked Arabs to stay and peacefully join the new country which is why Israel is 20% Arab. > This is such an absurd claim It's history. "Ben-Gurion’s 1948 Speech to arab population" > In any case, two wrongs do not make a right So do you support a right of return for Jews to Arab states or not? How will you guarantee their safety? > Israel's ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians in 1947-48 There were no Palestinians in 1947 which you should be aware of before you discuss this topic. And Arabs in 1948 were not ethnically cleansed by anyone. Look at the population statistics. > Muslim countries were historically more religiously tolerant than Christian countries. That changed for the Jews in the Arab world for two reasons: the foundation of Israel and imported antisemitic ideas from Europe. lol. Arab violence against Jews was commonplace, much like it's still commonplace. You can look up cases of widespread violence from before Israel became independent very easily. Also the grand mufti aligning himself with Hitler. Hence partitioning. > If you've followed the news, you'll know that Israel has repeatedly bombed Christian churches in Gaza. They hit the facade of a church by accident, hit the facade, owned the error. > A tiny number of UNWRA staff (you can literally count them on two hands) were alleged to be Hamas members And admitted by UNRWA. > UNRWA schools teach children to desire to be martyrs The idea that Palestinians have to be taught by the UN to hate Israel is absurd. > They hate Israel for the same reason Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto hated Germany. Because they're brainwashed by Islamic extremism? > The UN does a remarkable job of instituting neutral education in that environment So you think wanting to be martyrs and kill jews is neutral? > Including allowing Israel to review their educational materials and list of employees. I suspect what you and I have seen wasn't reviwed by Israel and I bet you you know this. > (disbanding UNRWA) is the obvious solution if you want to starve and immiserate the Palestinians. They're already miserable. Hamas is stockpiling their food and charging them for it. UNRWA and Hamas need to go. Do you support reintegrating Pakistan and India? Do you think Pakistan and India are legitimite states? Why or why not?