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I ride my ebike to work every day. I love it, it's a lot more convenient than my old manual bike was (more durable, less sweating in hilly SF). I really try har

by habosa 1y ago

I ride my ebike to work every day. I love it, it's a lot more convenient than my old manual bike was (more durable, less sweating in hilly SF). I really try hard to be conscientious and not do anything on it that a very strong normal cyclist wouldn't/couldn't do. I almost never have any occasion to top 20mph on it, except maybe when going down a steep hill. I don't want to advocate for more regulations on biking but ... people are assholes. I see so many people ripping on those moped-style ebikes. Going 30mph+ in a crowded bike lane, riding the wrong way against traffic, riding on sidewalks, texting, etc. Yes people _could_ do all of those things on regular bikes but in my experience they mostly didn't. I would be in favor of a law limiting pedal assist to 20mph and below. You can go faster than that, but the motor won't help you. 30mph is where most bikes top out right now and in a city that's faster than most car traffic. Way too fast for anything that follows bicycle laws (use of the bike lane, rolling stops allowed at stop signs, etc).

deleted 1y ago
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ghaff 1y ago
I sometimes sit in sidewalk seating at a restaurant in Cambridge near a small theater I have a subscription to. The (protected) bike lane in front is a pretty horrifying combination of conventional bikes, ebikes, things that I assume are high powered ebikes but look almost like motor scooters, escooters, pedestrians caught in the crosshairs, etc. And a ton of the vehicles just blowing through the lights at the next intersection because they're more or less bikes and that's pretty common behavior.
californical 1y ago
I don’t think that a sweeping speed limit ban is helpful. FWIW, I don’t own an e-bike and have only borrowed them from other people a few times. In the more rural, even suburban areas, it might be totally safe, even safer to go 25-30mph instead of 20, if you’re on a road with 35mph car traffic. I agree with you for major cities, I’ve had to deal with the antisocial people who rip through crowds.. but a sweeping ban like that will limit usefulness outside of cities. I’ve hit 30+mph on a regular bike with a strong wind at my back, and it felt fast. But not dangerous by any means - I was out on a rural country road. It’d be nice to get that “wind” from electricity, regardless of the weather, to greatly reduce the commute time between towns, without needing to drive a (more dangerous) car.
- Mashimo 1y ago
  You could classify very fast e-bikes as scooters / moppets. That why you can still drive them, but maybe you can't share the bike lane any more.
- nicoburns 1y ago
  I think higher speeds should be allowed, but they should be liscensed like any other motocycle (perhaps they're their own class with their own rules, but they should be registered with a license).
  - californical 1y ago
    I can hit that speed on a regular bike with a good wind, which is perfectly legal. Adding an extra licensing step could slow the adoption of people switching from cars to e-bikes for commutes (a very positive step in my opinion). A coworker of mine has a medium-speed e-bike, maybe goes 25-30mph in the (mostly empty) bike lane of a 45mph road for a lot of the journey. Tries to take 35mph side roads for the rest. It’s a very suburban/stroad-y area. His commute is about 4-5 miles, so he gets to work in ~10 minutes. This is a great solution for all - less cars, more efficient vehicle, less stressful for him not needing to drive. Any impediment to that reduces the likelihood of other people catching on to what he does. Maybe those medium-speed e-bikes should have a license in the same way as a fishing license. It’s trivial to obtain, but if you violate certain rules, the license acts as a means to revoke your privileges. I’d be perfectly ok with that.
    - saltcured 1y ago
      Does that bike lane go next to parked cars? You can imagine that even conscientious drivers could fail to see a bike approaching that fast and open their door into its path. I admit I rode my bike up to 35-45 MPH sometimes in my youth, just with pedaling and gravity. But, I was wise enough to realize I belong in a normal traffic lane at that point, not flying along the edge near pedestrians, parked cars, etc. And I wasn't exceeding the posted speed limit for that road. I had a less wise friend, with a very aerodynamic road bike, who hit ~60 MPH (in a 25 MPH zone) and T-boned a car because they did not consider unsafe it was with the limited sight lines. I felt sorry for the driver who, by all accounts, didn't do anything wrong.
the_snooze 1y ago
I ride a (regular human-powered) bike everyday through a paved mixed-use trail. While I'm able to hit 25+ MPH under ideal conditions, I average closer to 13 MPH just due to the physical realities of manually pedalling a bike. The problem with e-bikes is that they make those fast speeds routine, and attainable in places where you wouldn't otherwise expect them (e.g., going up a hill). They break the expectations for speed and reaction times in places designed for pedestrians and human-powered bikes. I'm all for people having easier access to the joys of getting around without a car. But sometimes I wonder if that accessibility makes it easy to bring car-like speeding mentality in places where it wasn't before.
moribvndvs 1y ago
I don’t even like regular bikes at speed (10+ mph) on mixed use paths, because kids, pets, and inattentive pedestrians (or cyclists) are a horrific combination, but now I get to watch assholes with headphones on ripping down sidewalks at 20-30 miles an hour while flipping through their phones. It’s fucking idiotic.
daft_pink 1y ago
FYI, there are actual laws setting limits on bikes. Generally most places in the USA will allow a Class 1 or Class 2 e-bike to be ridden anywhere a bike can be ridden legally and some allow Class 3 with more restrictions. Class 1 is pedal assist maximum 20 mph assisted and class 2 throttle assist up to 20 mph with pedal assist allowed and if you pedal harder yourself it’s okay. Class 3 is pedal assist up to 28 mph, but this is not accepted as a bike in many places or has more restrictions. Anything else would likely be a motorcycle or moped and subject to licensing/insurance/lights & mirrors/etc requirements and would not be allowed in most park/trails/bike paths/etc or only usable on private property like a go kart. However, in practice, no one is enforcing these laws and it’s difficult, because there is no easy way for the police to determine what class a bike is and no authority providing you with a license plate to verify the class that would limit your access if you didn’t have it. The government has basically accepted that most ebikes conform to the ebike laws most of the time. However, I believe many rental e-bikes like Lime/Bird/etc do conform to the law and are Class 1 or Class 2 bikes.
- ryandrake 1y ago
  The USA solution to problems that are already addressed by unenforced laws is to just write even more laws that will inevitably be unenforced.
  - daft_pink 1y ago
    Agreed. To be fair though, I think the purpose of the laws was to make it clear that e-bikes could be operated legally anywhere you can legally operate a bicycle, and that you could own and operate them in public without fear of police intervention or seizure like a go kart or other unregulated powered vehicle is subject to.
- dcsommer 1y ago
  Enforcement needs to be on the sales side, as enforcement at the consumer level is obviously impossible to scale. Also, class 2 (and 3) should not be allowed in bike lanes. If you have a throttle, you're not a bike; you're a motorcycle or moped. I see a clear difference in awareness and safety between pedal and throttle usage.
deleted 1y ago
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dzhiurgis 1y ago
IMO better to enforce the rules (no idea how) since there will be always rule breakers and I'd legit want a fast bike when driving among the cars on main road (i.e. where there are no bike lanes).

by habosa 1y ago

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

ghaff 1y ago

I sometimes sit in sidewalk seating at a restaurant in Cambridge near a small theater I have a subscription to. The (protected) bike lane in front is a pretty horrifying combination of conventional bikes, ebikes, things that I assume are high powered ebikes but look almost like motor scooters, escooters, pedestrians caught in the crosshairs, etc. And a ton of the vehicles just blowing through the lights at the next intersection because they're more or less bikes and that's pretty common behavior.

californical 1y ago

I don’t think that a sweeping speed limit ban is helpful. FWIW, I don’t own an e-bike and have only borrowed them from other people a few times. In the more rural, even suburban areas, it might be totally safe, even safer to go 25-30mph instead of 20, if you’re on a road with 35mph car traffic. I agree with you for major cities, I’ve had to deal with the antisocial people who rip through crowds.. but a sweeping ban like that will limit usefulness outside of cities. I’ve hit 30+mph on a regular bike with a strong wind at my back, and it felt fast. But not dangerous by any means - I was out on a rural country road. It’d be nice to get that “wind” from electricity, regardless of the weather, to greatly reduce the commute time between towns, without needing to drive a (more dangerous) car.

Mashimo 1y ago
You could classify very fast e-bikes as scooters / moppets. That why you can still drive them, but maybe you can't share the bike lane any more.
nicoburns 1y ago
I think higher speeds should be allowed, but they should be liscensed like any other motocycle (perhaps they're their own class with their own rules, but they should be registered with a license).
- californical 1y ago
  I can hit that speed on a regular bike with a good wind, which is perfectly legal. Adding an extra licensing step could slow the adoption of people switching from cars to e-bikes for commutes (a very positive step in my opinion). A coworker of mine has a medium-speed e-bike, maybe goes 25-30mph in the (mostly empty) bike lane of a 45mph road for a lot of the journey. Tries to take 35mph side roads for the rest. It’s a very suburban/stroad-y area. His commute is about 4-5 miles, so he gets to work in ~10 minutes. This is a great solution for all - less cars, more efficient vehicle, less stressful for him not needing to drive. Any impediment to that reduces the likelihood of other people catching on to what he does. Maybe those medium-speed e-bikes should have a license in the same way as a fishing license. It’s trivial to obtain, but if you violate certain rules, the license acts as a means to revoke your privileges. I’d be perfectly ok with that.
  - saltcured 1y ago
    Does that bike lane go next to parked cars? You can imagine that even conscientious drivers could fail to see a bike approaching that fast and open their door into its path. I admit I rode my bike up to 35-45 MPH sometimes in my youth, just with pedaling and gravity. But, I was wise enough to realize I belong in a normal traffic lane at that point, not flying along the edge near pedestrians, parked cars, etc. And I wasn't exceeding the posted speed limit for that road. I had a less wise friend, with a very aerodynamic road bike, who hit ~60 MPH (in a 25 MPH zone) and T-boned a car because they did not consider unsafe it was with the limited sight lines. I felt sorry for the driver who, by all accounts, didn't do anything wrong.

the_snooze 1y ago

I ride a (regular human-powered) bike everyday through a paved mixed-use trail. While I'm able to hit 25+ MPH under ideal conditions, I average closer to 13 MPH just due to the physical realities of manually pedalling a bike. The problem with e-bikes is that they make those fast speeds routine, and attainable in places where you wouldn't otherwise expect them (e.g., going up a hill). They break the expectations for speed and reaction times in places designed for pedestrians and human-powered bikes. I'm all for people having easier access to the joys of getting around without a car. But sometimes I wonder if that accessibility makes it easy to bring car-like speeding mentality in places where it wasn't before.

moribvndvs 1y ago

I don’t even like regular bikes at speed (10+ mph) on mixed use paths, because kids, pets, and inattentive pedestrians (or cyclists) are a horrific combination, but now I get to watch assholes with headphones on ripping down sidewalks at 20-30 miles an hour while flipping through their phones. It’s fucking idiotic.

daft_pink 1y ago

FYI, there are actual laws setting limits on bikes. Generally most places in the USA will allow a Class 1 or Class 2 e-bike to be ridden anywhere a bike can be ridden legally and some allow Class 3 with more restrictions. Class 1 is pedal assist maximum 20 mph assisted and class 2 throttle assist up to 20 mph with pedal assist allowed and if you pedal harder yourself it’s okay. Class 3 is pedal assist up to 28 mph, but this is not accepted as a bike in many places or has more restrictions. Anything else would likely be a motorcycle or moped and subject to licensing/insurance/lights & mirrors/etc requirements and would not be allowed in most park/trails/bike paths/etc or only usable on private property like a go kart. However, in practice, no one is enforcing these laws and it’s difficult, because there is no easy way for the police to determine what class a bike is and no authority providing you with a license plate to verify the class that would limit your access if you didn’t have it. The government has basically accepted that most ebikes conform to the ebike laws most of the time. However, I believe many rental e-bikes like Lime/Bird/etc do conform to the law and are Class 1 or Class 2 bikes.

ryandrake 1y ago
The USA solution to problems that are already addressed by unenforced laws is to just write even more laws that will inevitably be unenforced.
- daft_pink 1y ago
  Agreed. To be fair though, I think the purpose of the laws was to make it clear that e-bikes could be operated legally anywhere you can legally operate a bicycle, and that you could own and operate them in public without fear of police intervention or seizure like a go kart or other unregulated powered vehicle is subject to.
dcsommer 1y ago
Enforcement needs to be on the sales side, as enforcement at the consumer level is obviously impossible to scale. Also, class 2 (and 3) should not be allowed in bike lanes. If you have a throttle, you're not a bike; you're a motorcycle or moped. I see a clear difference in awareness and safety between pedal and throttle usage.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

dzhiurgis 1y ago

IMO better to enforce the rules (no idea how) since there will be always rule breakers and I'd legit want a fast bike when driving among the cars on main road (i.e. where there are no bike lanes).