6 ms·

Raw milk outbreak from 2023 reported

21 points by sea-gold 1y ago

philipkglass 1y ago
If one is willing to accept the risk, where's the best place to try unpasteurized milk for a taste evaluation? I tried it once before, obtained from a small regional grocery chain that sold it with lots of warning signs. I expected it to be a sort of forbidden culinary delight, based on online anecdotes and the fact that people are willing to pay more and risk harm to drink it. But it just tasted like any other milk to me. (By way of contrast, fresh orange juice tastes notably better than the pasteurized kind.)
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 1y ago
  My dad used to buy raw milk and I attest the same. Meh. We have good local dairy farms and the pasteurized milk is great. I never saw the benefit of raw.
- graemep 1y ago
  The raw milk I used to have tasted a lot better to me. I do not know whether that was because it was very fresh (bought from a vending machine at the farm) rather than because it was not pasteurised.
  - Spivak 1y ago
    It's almost surely because of where you sourced it rather than its rawness. I have a friend who is a cheese monger, which like what a cool job, and they source fresh high fat content milk from a local dairy farm. He brought some home to us to try since he talked it up so much—apparently it's what they use in their coffee while working—and oh boy it's the best milk I've ever had. My guess is some wires get crossed where someone tries a raw milk and it's the first not grocery store milk they've had and so clearly the difference must be that it's raw. Can't really blame anyone for the confusion, until my friend talked my ear off about cows I thought milk was milk.
    - hadlock 1y ago
      Feed stock for the cattle matters a lot, it's not for marketing reasons that varieties of cheddar range from white to yellow to cartoonish orange. Certain types of cheese (particularly Friesland in the Netherlands) end up with a lot more butterfat than other types of milk.
      - graemep 1y ago
        Good point. I am now wondering if there is another source of fresh local milk.
  - BugsJustFindMe 1y ago
    Almost certainly just the fat percentage. It's common for cows to produce milk at notably higher fat percentage (often more than 5%) than the mandatory minimum standard for "whole milk" (3.25% in the US) that large commercial producers centrifuge and re-blend down to to maximize profit. Most consumers are unaware that "whole milk" is a specific commercial regulation that does not mean "all the original milkfat", and this gets in the way of educating people about the danger of drinking milk raw. Add a bit of pasteurized cream back into your pasteurized milk and see that it tastes much better.
- rmosolgo 1y ago
  My house! But seriously, I'd say that "raw" makes less of a difference than freshness and the cow's diet. (After all, milk is made out of what the cows eat, and several notable compounds can only be synthesized with a grass-based diet.) Herd health, breed, cleanliness, and milking frequency all make a difference too. If you can find a local-ish place that rotationally grazes the cows and milks once per day, I'd say go for it.
- GuB-42 1y ago
  Most people don't make a difference between raw and pasteurized milk when drinking it. I tasted raw milk and I don't think I can. Obviously, you need to compare the same quality of milk, full fat is going to taste different than skimmed. Raw milk cheese is different. Most people can taste the difference between raw milk cheese and pasteurized. It doesn't mean that they prefer the raw milk version though. Raw milk cheese usually have more diverse and intense flavors, but it can also mean more off-flavors and inconsistencies. For me that's what makes it interesting, so, raw milk cheese all the way! Of course, raw milk and raw milk products are more expensive, and food safety has a lot to do with it. With raw milk, you have to work quickly and with stricter quality control.
Alifatisk 1y ago
Isn't drinking raw milk a very risky thing to do? What's the benefit here?
- hilsdev 1y ago
  Not “very”. The pasteurization process is enough to denature some nutrients
- nerdjon 1y ago
  Questionable (at best) benefits and yes generally viewed as too risky by most people to consume. It seems like most people pushing "benefits" of raw milk use the same conspiracy theories to try to say that the many studies are false. And then judging by this particular farm, also downplay the risk and their impact (but not quite 100% since everyone knows there is a risk, it just now much). If a healty adult wants to make the (questionable) decision to drink raw milk themselves that is one thing. But the parents giving this to their kids should be investigated for child endangerment. There is zero reason that should be acceptable.
- potato3732842 1y ago
  Raw = unpasteurized. That's it. Everyone claims it's "better" but that's likely mostly a reflection of freshness since anyone drinking raw milk these days is likely at the end of a very short supply chain. From a public health perspective yeah pasteurized milk is obviously superior but it's one of those redundancy things that isn't necessary if every party from tit to mouth gives a crap. Farmer isn't gonna sell you crap if he can help it. You're not gonna drink crap if you listen to your nose. Where it gets tricky is when there's a bunch of potential middle men moving a bunch of product who could potentially risk it moving some questionable stuff around and plausibly dodge blame or adulterate the product so it's not obvious that it's bad. Both of which were a problem 100yr ago which is why we have standard pasteurization today. Personally I think with modern robust supply chains there could be a place for raw milk in the market but it sure would be expensive after accounting for the extra QC one would need to drink it right. And this is coming from someone who drinks ultra pasteurized lactose free because it lasts the longest.
- alphazard 1y ago

21 points by sea-gold 1y ago

If one is willing to accept the risk, where's the best place to try unpasteurized milk for a taste evaluation? I tried it once before, obtained from a small regional grocery chain that sold it with lots of warning signs. I expected it to be a sort of forbidden culinary delight, based on online anecdotes and the fact that people are willing to pay more and risk harm to drink it. But it just tasted like any other milk to me. (By way of contrast, fresh orange juice tastes notably better than the pasteurized kind.)

2OEH8eoCRo0 1y ago
My dad used to buy raw milk and I attest the same. Meh. We have good local dairy farms and the pasteurized milk is great. I never saw the benefit of raw.
graemep 1y ago
The raw milk I used to have tasted a lot better to me. I do not know whether that was because it was very fresh (bought from a vending machine at the farm) rather than because it was not pasteurised.
- Spivak 1y ago
  It's almost surely because of where you sourced it rather than its rawness. I have a friend who is a cheese monger, which like what a cool job, and they source fresh high fat content milk from a local dairy farm. He brought some home to us to try since he talked it up so much—apparently it's what they use in their coffee while working—and oh boy it's the best milk I've ever had. My guess is some wires get crossed where someone tries a raw milk and it's the first not grocery store milk they've had and so clearly the difference must be that it's raw. Can't really blame anyone for the confusion, until my friend talked my ear off about cows I thought milk was milk.
  - hadlock 1y ago
    Feed stock for the cattle matters a lot, it's not for marketing reasons that varieties of cheddar range from white to yellow to cartoonish orange. Certain types of cheese (particularly Friesland in the Netherlands) end up with a lot more butterfat than other types of milk.
    - graemep 1y ago
      Good point. I am now wondering if there is another source of fresh local milk.
- BugsJustFindMe 1y ago
  Almost certainly just the fat percentage. It's common for cows to produce milk at notably higher fat percentage (often more than 5%) than the mandatory minimum standard for "whole milk" (3.25% in the US) that large commercial producers centrifuge and re-blend down to to maximize profit. Most consumers are unaware that "whole milk" is a specific commercial regulation that does not mean "all the original milkfat", and this gets in the way of educating people about the danger of drinking milk raw. Add a bit of pasteurized cream back into your pasteurized milk and see that it tastes much better.
rmosolgo 1y ago
My house! But seriously, I'd say that "raw" makes less of a difference than freshness and the cow's diet. (After all, milk is made out of what the cows eat, and several notable compounds can only be synthesized with a grass-based diet.) Herd health, breed, cleanliness, and milking frequency all make a difference too. If you can find a local-ish place that rotationally grazes the cows and milks once per day, I'd say go for it.
GuB-42 1y ago
Most people don't make a difference between raw and pasteurized milk when drinking it. I tasted raw milk and I don't think I can. Obviously, you need to compare the same quality of milk, full fat is going to taste different than skimmed. Raw milk cheese is different. Most people can taste the difference between raw milk cheese and pasteurized. It doesn't mean that they prefer the raw milk version though. Raw milk cheese usually have more diverse and intense flavors, but it can also mean more off-flavors and inconsistencies. For me that's what makes it interesting, so, raw milk cheese all the way! Of course, raw milk and raw milk products are more expensive, and food safety has a lot to do with it. With raw milk, you have to work quickly and with stricter quality control.

Alifatisk 1y ago

Isn't drinking raw milk a very risky thing to do? What's the benefit here?

hilsdev 1y ago
Not “very”. The pasteurization process is enough to denature some nutrients
nerdjon 1y ago
Questionable (at best) benefits and yes generally viewed as too risky by most people to consume. It seems like most people pushing "benefits" of raw milk use the same conspiracy theories to try to say that the many studies are false. And then judging by this particular farm, also downplay the risk and their impact (but not quite 100% since everyone knows there is a risk, it just now much). If a healty adult wants to make the (questionable) decision to drink raw milk themselves that is one thing. But the parents giving this to their kids should be investigated for child endangerment. There is zero reason that should be acceptable.
potato3732842 1y ago
Raw = unpasteurized. That's it. Everyone claims it's "better" but that's likely mostly a reflection of freshness since anyone drinking raw milk these days is likely at the end of a very short supply chain. From a public health perspective yeah pasteurized milk is obviously superior but it's one of those redundancy things that isn't necessary if every party from tit to mouth gives a crap. Farmer isn't gonna sell you crap if he can help it. You're not gonna drink crap if you listen to your nose. Where it gets tricky is when there's a bunch of potential middle men moving a bunch of product who could potentially risk it moving some questionable stuff around and plausibly dodge blame or adulterate the product so it's not obvious that it's bad. Both of which were a problem 100yr ago which is why we have standard pasteurization today. Personally I think with modern robust supply chains there could be a place for raw milk in the market but it sure would be expensive after accounting for the extra QC one would need to drink it right. And this is coming from someone who drinks ultra pasteurized lactose free because it lasts the longest.
alphazard 1y ago