5 ms·

To each their own. I much prefer to live in the neighbourhood where each neighbour does what they feel like with their property, within reason. It ought not be

To each their own. I much prefer to live in the neighbourhood where each neighbour does what they feel like with their property, within reason. It ought not be any business of yours what I do with my yard, front or back, as long as it doesn't adversely affect your enjoyment of your own property - and this last part is key - as a reasonable person would interpret it. In other words, smells and health hazards - sure. Unexplainable hatred for wildflowers, uncut grass and the laughter of children - go ahead and send a passive aggressive note straight to /dev/null for all I care.

Arainach 1y ago
The issue is that it's hard to agree on where the line is and (without a HOA) impossible to enforce. Wildflowers? Generally good. Tall grass that allows rats to thrive and spread into adjacent yards? Bad. Most people don't want to have to go to court to battle pedantic neighbors who confuse the two.
- dfxm12 1y ago
  If it comes to it, cops, 311 and probably other means are available. It's possible to enforce and court is not needed.
  - Arainach 1y ago
    It's hard enough to get the cops to come out to a robbery - I know of nowhere in America where they're bored enough to come look at someone with poor landscaping. Unless you're a decamillionaire (or a cop), the cops in America don't care about you.
    - autoexec 1y ago
      > I know of nowhere in America where they're bored enough to come look at someone with poor landscaping. People get fines all the time for failing to cut their grass. Some cities just love the income. They can add up to several thousand (https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/in-court-of-appeals/1687744.html https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/in-court-of-appeals/168774...).
    - c22 1y ago
      If you're feeling like an asshole and you complain to the city about your neighbors overgrown yard most places will start fining your neighbor daily if it's actually a problem. It's not really a police matter though.
    - onlypassingthru 1y ago
      My former city has code enforcement officers that drive around the neighborhoods and issue warnings and citations for insufficient weed control (got one of those), unsightly (dead) vegetation (got that one, too) and minimum pool maintenance (next door neighbor got that one). FWIW, I'd love to know how they're monitoring everyone's pools.
  - chasd00 1y ago
    Heh in my neighborhood (oakcliff in Dallas TX) if you’re white and have a garage sale without a permit it’s like committing a felony. If you’re not white, code enforcement will come help you set up and tear down no permit required.
gspencley 1y ago
> and the laughter of children This I will take a nuanced position on. If your kids are playing in the backyard, and it doesn't impact me at all ... perfect please enjoy life. But I can often hear people outside, especially children screeching and yelling, over my television with all of my doors and windows shut and the air conditioner on full blast. In those scenarios, the laughter IS adversely affecting the ability of other people to enjoy their own property.
- autoexec 1y ago
  children screeching and yelling, provided that it isn't going on for hours at a time or in the middle of night, is just a normal consequence of living in a community. I do feel for people who move in next to schools or public pools/playgrounds but considering how much time kids spend indoors these days I'd guess that people today have it much easier than people did in the past. I'd much rather have to occasionally be reminded that kids are somewhere playing and having a good time than deal with a lot of the other noises that can disrupt a person's day like loud cars/motorcycles, drunk people fighting, landscapers or sirens.
  - c22 1y ago
    If you move next to a playground you should know what you're doing. My parents live next to a school on purpose and we all enjoy the sounds of children when we're out in the yard. Recess isn't even that long and always happens in the middle of a weekday.
  - gspencley 1y ago
    > children screeching and yelling, provided that it isn't going on for hours at a time But it does often go on for hours at a time. And I'm not talking about a school zone or a park. As another person pointed out, if you move next to a school or a park you know what you are signing up for. But in a quiet suburb, if the issue is new neighbours that weren't there when you bought the house.. or who just started a family recently. That's something that's being imposed on you that didn't exist before. And we don't tolerate this when it is barking dogs or loud music. Most cities have noise ordinances and I even read mine because of problematic neighbours. Not because of children, mind you. The man was an alcoholic who would get drunk early in the morning and go into his backyard where he would have loud screaming matches with hallucinations which terrified our small daughters so I wanted to know if the noise ordinance covered it. Answer is, technically yes but the police don't enforce yelling and hollering despite it being spelled out in the letter of the bylaw. Why is it acceptable to expect people to keep their pets quiet, their music at a reasonable volume, their power tools and machinery at bay and to not have extremely loud parties where people are screaming and blasting noise ... but the second it's loud children we're talking about oh no ... you just need to learn to "live in a community"? You can make the same argument about anything. Living with neighbours who have tall grass is part of "living in a community." Some people don't care about well trimmed lawns. Motorcycles with extremely loud engines, just part of "living in a community." Barking dogs. Honking car horns etc. etc. etc. We have noise ordinances for a reason; noise directly affects other people. And I say all of this as a parent who raised two daughters to adulthood. I don't understand this weird standard. We (their mother and I) always expected our children to be respectful of our neighbours.
ramesh31 1y ago
>"within reason". Key word there. HOA rules exist for the sole purpose of defining a common, enforceable, agreed upon definition of "within reason".

Arainach 1y ago

The issue is that it's hard to agree on where the line is and (without a HOA) impossible to enforce. Wildflowers? Generally good. Tall grass that allows rats to thrive and spread into adjacent yards? Bad. Most people don't want to have to go to court to battle pedantic neighbors who confuse the two.

dfxm12 1y ago
If it comes to it, cops, 311 and probably other means are available. It's possible to enforce and court is not needed.
- Arainach 1y ago
  It's hard enough to get the cops to come out to a robbery - I know of nowhere in America where they're bored enough to come look at someone with poor landscaping. Unless you're a decamillionaire (or a cop), the cops in America don't care about you.
  - autoexec 1y ago
    > I know of nowhere in America where they're bored enough to come look at someone with poor landscaping. People get fines all the time for failing to cut their grass. Some cities just love the income. They can add up to several thousand (https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/in-court-of-appeals/1687744.html https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/in-court-of-appeals/168774...).
  - c22 1y ago
    If you're feeling like an asshole and you complain to the city about your neighbors overgrown yard most places will start fining your neighbor daily if it's actually a problem. It's not really a police matter though.
  - onlypassingthru 1y ago
    My former city has code enforcement officers that drive around the neighborhoods and issue warnings and citations for insufficient weed control (got one of those), unsightly (dead) vegetation (got that one, too) and minimum pool maintenance (next door neighbor got that one). FWIW, I'd love to know how they're monitoring everyone's pools.
- chasd00 1y ago
  Heh in my neighborhood (oakcliff in Dallas TX) if you’re white and have a garage sale without a permit it’s like committing a felony. If you’re not white, code enforcement will come help you set up and tear down no permit required.

gspencley 1y ago

> and the laughter of children This I will take a nuanced position on. If your kids are playing in the backyard, and it doesn't impact me at all ... perfect please enjoy life. But I can often hear people outside, especially children screeching and yelling, over my television with all of my doors and windows shut and the air conditioner on full blast. In those scenarios, the laughter IS adversely affecting the ability of other people to enjoy their own property.

autoexec 1y ago
children screeching and yelling, provided that it isn't going on for hours at a time or in the middle of night, is just a normal consequence of living in a community. I do feel for people who move in next to schools or public pools/playgrounds but considering how much time kids spend indoors these days I'd guess that people today have it much easier than people did in the past. I'd much rather have to occasionally be reminded that kids are somewhere playing and having a good time than deal with a lot of the other noises that can disrupt a person's day like loud cars/motorcycles, drunk people fighting, landscapers or sirens.
- c22 1y ago
  If you move next to a playground you should know what you're doing. My parents live next to a school on purpose and we all enjoy the sounds of children when we're out in the yard. Recess isn't even that long and always happens in the middle of a weekday.
- gspencley 1y ago
  > children screeching and yelling, provided that it isn't going on for hours at a time But it does often go on for hours at a time. And I'm not talking about a school zone or a park. As another person pointed out, if you move next to a school or a park you know what you are signing up for. But in a quiet suburb, if the issue is new neighbours that weren't there when you bought the house.. or who just started a family recently. That's something that's being imposed on you that didn't exist before. And we don't tolerate this when it is barking dogs or loud music. Most cities have noise ordinances and I even read mine because of problematic neighbours. Not because of children, mind you. The man was an alcoholic who would get drunk early in the morning and go into his backyard where he would have loud screaming matches with hallucinations which terrified our small daughters so I wanted to know if the noise ordinance covered it. Answer is, technically yes but the police don't enforce yelling and hollering despite it being spelled out in the letter of the bylaw. Why is it acceptable to expect people to keep their pets quiet, their music at a reasonable volume, their power tools and machinery at bay and to not have extremely loud parties where people are screaming and blasting noise ... but the second it's loud children we're talking about oh no ... you just need to learn to "live in a community"? You can make the same argument about anything. Living with neighbours who have tall grass is part of "living in a community." Some people don't care about well trimmed lawns. Motorcycles with extremely loud engines, just part of "living in a community." Barking dogs. Honking car horns etc. etc. etc. We have noise ordinances for a reason; noise directly affects other people. And I say all of this as a parent who raised two daughters to adulthood. I don't understand this weird standard. We (their mother and I) always expected our children to be respectful of our neighbours.

ramesh31 1y ago

>"within reason". Key word there. HOA rules exist for the sole purpose of defining a common, enforceable, agreed upon definition of "within reason".