5 ms·
This is very disturbing. How did the FBI gain access to all this information? It should be locked up in Apple. From what I see, the NCFTA in "NCFTA_iOS_devices
by yangez 14y ago
This is very disturbing. How did the FBI gain access to all this information? It should be locked up in Apple.
From what I see, the NCFTA in "NCFTA_iOS_devices_intel.csv" looks like it stands for the National Cyber-Forensics & Training Alliance, which "functions as a conduit between private industry and law enforcement." (http://www.ncfta.net/ http://www.ncfta.net/)
Is Apple willingly sharing personal information with the FBI through the NCFTA?
- muppetman 14y agoGood thing the announcement didn't say "A large monster from Mars radioed these in" - Imagine how upset you'd have been at NASA!!!! A bit of a dick way of putting it, but there's no evidence the FBI is involved in this other than some words in an announcement that could be by anyone with an axe to grind.
- Karunamon 14y agoI'm not sure why you're getting downvoted here, it's a valid point. There is nothing to prove this list came from the FBI, and I wouldn't put it above Antisec/Anonymous to get into a database of some popular iOS app, release the info, and then say it was from the FBI both to slag on the FBI and to stroke their e-peni^H^H^H^H^H^H^H ego.
- muppetman 14y agoNeither am I, but I suppose the humour was a little too barbed.
- mtgx 14y agoCouldn't an American request a FOIA for this to see what's the level of information gathering on iPhone users? Could EFF sue them for it or something to unveil more?
- eli 14y agoIf there is indeed an ongoing investigation, FOIA would not apply (reasonably enough).
- guelo 14y agoAn ongoing investigation of 12 million people?
- eli 14y agoI have no idea. There are a lot of assumptions implicit in that question. I'm just saying that you are unlikely to be successful in requesting more information for this file. Information that "could reasonably interfere" with law enforcement is exempt. Also, the FBI does not make it easy to request documents form them and, further, the turnaround on a request can be months or years.
- arn 14y agoDoesn't a popular iOS developer have the same information? UDIDs, APNS tokens (for push notifications), basic demographic information is something a popular social app or game might have. 12 million is a pretty good number, though. edit: our iOS app has over 2 million of these type of device records (though we don't collect any demographic info, so just device ids, apns tokens, device names, device types -- standard for push notifications). http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/NetworkingInternet/Conceptual/RemoteNotificationsPG/ApplePushService/ApplePushService.html http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Networ...
- jlgreco 14y agoWould all of those millions install an application from the FBI knowing it gave them that information? Just because I am ok with one organization having my information doesn't mean that I am ok with any others having the same.
- arn 14y agoI'm presuming the FBI got the database from an App Developer. Not that the FBI released a popular iOS app.
- jlgreco 14y agoUh, yes. I think that is a safe assumption that they did not compile the list themselves.
- wtn 14y agoThe FBI stole an Instapaper server in an unrelated raid http://blog.instapaper.com/post/6830514157 http://blog.instapaper.com/post/6830514157
- lostlogin 14y agoI couldn't even guess the episode, but Marco has stated on is 5by5 podcast that he doesn't collect user information and only dips into user information grudgingly. I'd be surprised if this came from him as according to his statements he finds holding any user information that could be described as private unpleasant. This is all based on recollection however.
- JonnieCache 14y ago>Is Apple willingly sharing personal information with the FBI through the NCFTA? Define "willingly."
- duiker101 14y agoFBI: "Can we have this data? we can pay something" Apple: "Sure! In which format do you prefer to have it?"
- officemonkey 14y agoFBI: "Just give it to us as CSV, kthxbai."
- crag 14y agoIt wouldn't be "willingly". But If Apple was presented with an order from a court, then yes, they'd have no choice. They could fight it; but they'd lose, depending on the reason. Frankly the only reason would be some terrorism angle. But those types of actions are rare.
- roc 14y agoI would be surprised if you could get a court order to turn over details on 12 million users.
- sweded 14y agoI wish that Apple, if indeed presented with a court order, would've gone the Twitter route and publicized that fact.
- TheCondor 14y agoIt's a no win situation for them. Hand the info over and you're on msnbc for giving it up, don't hand it over and you're on fox news for helping the terrorists... Plus for certain kinds of investigations, it would go against the court order to go public. I don't want to defend apple here but this is an American law enforcement problem, I'm certain ms, google and others have provided info to the government that would anger many and there are probably a lot of companies that do it without a court order... Trying to be good citizens. Why the hell was that info on a laptop?
- munin 14y agowhat kind of verification do you have that the file was pulled from an FBI computer? could anonymous have hacked this information from Apple or a carrier themselves? what information is present that they didn't do that?
- belorn 14y agoAre there any indication in the files that points towards a hack on apple or a carrier?
- stray 14y agoA more likely source is neustar (a spinoff of Lockheed), who also has all that information and is actually in the intel business.
- ANH 14y agoThe National Cyber Forensics and Training Alliance in Pittsburgh is the office where the FBI Agent who posed as a member of the carding community worked when he helped take down Max Ray Vision, née Butler.
- gonzo 14y agoMore: http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2011/september/cyber_091611 http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2011/september/cyber_091611 “The exchange of strategic and threat intelligence is really the bread and butter of the NCFTA,” said Special Agent Eric Strom, who heads the FBI unit—the Cyber Initiative and Resource Fusion Unit (CIRFU)—assigned to the NCFTA. “The success of this effort at every level comes down to the free flow of information among our partners.” Dan Larkin (the FBI Agent who setup NCFTA in 1997) http://www.linkedin.com/pub/dan-larkin/25/90/910 http://www.linkedin.com/pub/dan-larkin/25/90/910 Note that he used to be with CIRFU. LIkely that he still is with the CIRFU. They share office space: http://www.itbusiness.ca/it/client/en/home/News.asp?id=51778&PageMem=1 http://www.itbusiness.ca/it/client/en/home/News.asp?id=51778... "Mularski works for a little-known FBI division called the Cyber Initiative and Resource Fusion Unit, run out of the National Cyber-Forensics & Training Alliance in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. The unit is different from a typical FBI field office. It works hand in hand with industry and takes the time to do the deep research required to penetrate the world of online crimina