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Are we though? If you look closely at it, there is no evidence that brain causes consciousness, just correlation.

WantonQuantum 1y ago
There's a massive amount of evidence that consciousness occurs in the brain. If one were to propose that it's just a correlation then some kind of convincing argument would need to be made about how and why.
- nis0s 1y ago
  True, and there is also plenty of evidence which snows how neuronal degradation in some pathways leads to losing aspects of consciousness.
- teiferer 1y ago
  I read GP comment as "there is no evidence that everything having a brain is conscious (and vice versa)", not as "the place where the individual's consciousness operates is the brain". The former could be applied to whatever LLM is the hype of the day. It's interesting though that the only consciousness that I'm sure of exists is my own. Anybody else's is just somehing I'm assuming. You can measure intelligence, but not consciousness.
imchillyb 1y ago
I believe there is thorough, observable, evidence to suggest that consciousness is manifest exclusively through the brain. Persons with damaged brains have damaged consciousness. Persons with underdeveloped brains have underdeveloped consciousness. People without functioning brains have no detectable consciousness. There is a metric ton of observed and collected data on consciousness. Of course evidence does not equal proof…
- motoboi 1y ago
  I appreciate your point, but be sure to take a look at the current state of the mind-body problem to understand that those evidences you brought up point to the brain as mediator of consciousness, not the cause.
  - Timwi 1y ago
    They absolutely point to the brain as the cause. To suggest otherwise is to introduce unscientific/superstitious concepts like souls or whatnot, which violates Occam’s razor. If that’s the road you want to go down, come back when you have independent evidence for that.

There's a massive amount of evidence that consciousness occurs in the brain. If one were to propose that it's just a correlation then some kind of convincing argument would need to be made about how and why.

nis0s 1y ago
True, and there is also plenty of evidence which snows how neuronal degradation in some pathways leads to losing aspects of consciousness.
teiferer 1y ago
I read GP comment as "there is no evidence that everything having a brain is conscious (and vice versa)", not as "the place where the individual's consciousness operates is the brain". The former could be applied to whatever LLM is the hype of the day. It's interesting though that the only consciousness that I'm sure of exists is my own. Anybody else's is just somehing I'm assuming. You can measure intelligence, but not consciousness.

imchillyb 1y ago

I believe there is thorough, observable, evidence to suggest that consciousness is manifest exclusively through the brain. Persons with damaged brains have damaged consciousness. Persons with underdeveloped brains have underdeveloped consciousness. People without functioning brains have no detectable consciousness. There is a metric ton of observed and collected data on consciousness. Of course evidence does not equal proof…

motoboi 1y ago
I appreciate your point, but be sure to take a look at the current state of the mind-body problem to understand that those evidences you brought up point to the brain as mediator of consciousness, not the cause.
- Timwi 1y ago
  They absolutely point to the brain as the cause. To suggest otherwise is to introduce unscientific/superstitious concepts like souls or whatnot, which violates Occam’s razor. If that’s the road you want to go down, come back when you have independent evidence for that.