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On what do they disagree? That Genocide denial is not hate speech, or that genocide denial should be welcomed on HN? Or is the HN community much quicker in taki

On what do they disagree? That Genocide denial is not hate speech, or that genocide denial should be welcomed on HN? Or is the HN community much quicker in taking down posts they disagree with rather then posts which are engaging in seriously dangerous and possible illegal rhetoric.

tptacek 1y ago
It's tough to have a curious conversation with someone who has declared that disagreeing with them is literally illegal.
- runarberg 1y ago
  So what you are saying is that you (and the users flagging my posts) disagree on whether Israels conduct in Gaza constitutes a genocide. Before I start first let me clear that when I say genocide denial I am talking about the specific form of hate speech which is to deny the atrocities them selves, deny their severity, or deny the intentions behind them. I left a post about this which got flagged (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44718052 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44718052). Users which find issue with me calling the Gaza genocide a genocide, and flag it because of that, are not engaging in the type of genocide denial I am talking about. Although I find it extremely lame if the HN community takes greater issue with my semantics than the horrible crimes being done, and the posts on HN which are helping the propaganda war around them. I think HN may be on the wrong side of humanity if this is the case. Users that actually disagree with me about the atrocities being conducted in Gaza should not be given the opportunity to direct the discussion in any way. Just so we are clear we are talking about the crime of crimes here, and genocide denial is an integral part of that crime, without it the criminals would quickly be brought to justice, which is why genocide denial—and genocidal propaganda in general—is illegal in many countries. What I am saying here is that, yes, if you disagree with me on the nature of the atrocities the Israeli Army is currently engaging in in Gaza, you are literally breaking laws in many countries. And such hate should be moderated out of existence rather quickly on any tech forum, just like any other forms of hate speech.
  - tptacek 1y ago
    I haven't told you anything about what I think about this conflict and don't intend to, but if you can't read what I'm saying (even as you disagree with it) without casting me as a character amongst your adversaries, that's all the more reason to believe you should maybe dial it back on this topic. At any rate: my participation in this thread has stopped being useful, and so here's where I'll bow out. Thanks for listening!
    - runarberg 1y ago
      I feel like I was just flamebated. I will conclude by saying at some point (and that point may even be reached) genocide denial will not be tolerated on HN, it is not a matter of more HN agreeing that Israel is conducting a genocide (thought that is a probable precursor) but rather that HN users will start treating genocide denial as the form of hate speech that it is. My conduct up to this point will be deemed insignificant—and almost entirely forgotten about—by then, no matter how heated I become. But many HN users—including me—will remember how difficult it was to get to that point, and how much hate was allowed on HN during an ongoing genocide. I hope some HN users will see their own guilt in participating in a culture which treated genocide denial as a simple disagreement.
      - tptacek 1y ago
        (Without re-engaging on any of this, I certainly didn't mean to bait you, but see how you could get there; I have a take on your comments that I wouldn't like to hear about mine, either. I'll try harder not to sound like I'm barbing you, and, as part of that, I'm getting the hell out of this thread.)

tptacek 1y ago

It's tough to have a curious conversation with someone who has declared that disagreeing with them is literally illegal.

runarberg 1y ago
So what you are saying is that you (and the users flagging my posts) disagree on whether Israels conduct in Gaza constitutes a genocide. Before I start first let me clear that when I say genocide denial I am talking about the specific form of hate speech which is to deny the atrocities them selves, deny their severity, or deny the intentions behind them. I left a post about this which got flagged (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44718052 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44718052). Users which find issue with me calling the Gaza genocide a genocide, and flag it because of that, are not engaging in the type of genocide denial I am talking about. Although I find it extremely lame if the HN community takes greater issue with my semantics than the horrible crimes being done, and the posts on HN which are helping the propaganda war around them. I think HN may be on the wrong side of humanity if this is the case. Users that actually disagree with me about the atrocities being conducted in Gaza should not be given the opportunity to direct the discussion in any way. Just so we are clear we are talking about the crime of crimes here, and genocide denial is an integral part of that crime, without it the criminals would quickly be brought to justice, which is why genocide denial—and genocidal propaganda in general—is illegal in many countries. What I am saying here is that, yes, if you disagree with me on the nature of the atrocities the Israeli Army is currently engaging in in Gaza, you are literally breaking laws in many countries. And such hate should be moderated out of existence rather quickly on any tech forum, just like any other forms of hate speech.
- tptacek 1y ago
  I haven't told you anything about what I think about this conflict and don't intend to, but if you can't read what I'm saying (even as you disagree with it) without casting me as a character amongst your adversaries, that's all the more reason to believe you should maybe dial it back on this topic. At any rate: my participation in this thread has stopped being useful, and so here's where I'll bow out. Thanks for listening!
  - runarberg 1y ago
    I feel like I was just flamebated. I will conclude by saying at some point (and that point may even be reached) genocide denial will not be tolerated on HN, it is not a matter of more HN agreeing that Israel is conducting a genocide (thought that is a probable precursor) but rather that HN users will start treating genocide denial as the form of hate speech that it is. My conduct up to this point will be deemed insignificant—and almost entirely forgotten about—by then, no matter how heated I become. But many HN users—including me—will remember how difficult it was to get to that point, and how much hate was allowed on HN during an ongoing genocide. I hope some HN users will see their own guilt in participating in a culture which treated genocide denial as a simple disagreement.
    - tptacek 1y ago
      (Without re-engaging on any of this, I certainly didn't mean to bait you, but see how you could get there; I have a take on your comments that I wouldn't like to hear about mine, either. I'll try harder not to sound like I'm barbing you, and, as part of that, I'm getting the hell out of this thread.)