5 ms·

Futurehome smart hub owners must pay new $117 subscription or lose access

86 points by duxup 1y ago

norir 1y ago
It is hard to overstate how wrong they are doing things if it costs more than a dollar or so per year for managed configuration. I previously worked for a cloud managed device company and it was obscene how high the margin was on the mandatory software licenses we bundled with the hardware and we were also collecting a huge amount of data, not just providing configuration.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- patmorgan23 1y ago
  Is that including R&D cost and maintenance? Or just raw hosting cost? These systems are more than just code and need active maintenance and defense.
  - Sayrus 1y ago
    If the company went bankrupt and just disappeared, people would still be able to use their device.
bshep 1y ago
This is why if you have a choice you should buy devices that have ‘local only’ option. Unfortunately the masses dont care or dont have the technical knowledge to taoe advantage of it
- duxup 1y ago
  Agreed, although if it has any online management / phone home / software updates, that can be removed. In the end it's about trust if there's any other party involved. And you hope you can trust the next person who maybe buys the company.
  - somanyphotons 1y ago
    > that can be removed. I'm surprised that there isn't more legal action from this behavior
- codecutter 1y ago
  Other thing I have started doing is to stop doing any upgrade for things that are already working locally. Example: no more upgrades for HP printer software.
- sumtechguy 1y ago
  The thing is that may not have saved them here. They did an update to make it stop working. You would need to be local only and stay there and never use the online features.
  - kube-system 1y ago
    "Auto-executes code from the internet" sounds diametrically opposed to "local only"
    - sumtechguy 1y ago
      Yes. However, what will happen is most will be 'fail to local only' but if that update server ever comes back to life, you are doomed.
  - nickthegreek 1y ago
    many smart home products use different protocols than wifi. This means they will not be updated without your knowledge and cannot connect online themselves.
CaliforniaKarl 1y ago
I think it’s worth noting that the company which is charging the subscription fee is not the same company that sold the smart hubs: Futurehome declared bankruptcy in May; this fee is being charged by its successor.
- bigmattystyles 1y ago
  What about the people? Are they the same?
  - owlninja 1y ago
    > The platform and related services were purchased from the bankruptcy estate—50 percent by former Futurehome owners and 50 percent by Sikom Connect—and are now operated by FHSD Connect AS.
- phkahler 1y ago
  So the company has even less claim to those devices it has damaged.
- msgodel 1y ago
  It doesn't matter whether it's shareholders or creditors in charge IMO. Neither party have your interests in mind. If you don't have the firmware source and an unlocked bootloader you're only renting the device.
  - gruez 1y ago
    That might work for the average HN user that already has a homelab cluster with a dozen kubernetes services running, but for the average joe it might as well be dead.
    - fsflover 1y ago
      This is an old argument. FLOSS firmware allows consumer to pay to any external company to fix the device, thus breaking the artificial monopoly of proprietary software.
gchamonlive 1y ago
Missed opportunity for the article to include the video Rossmann has on this: https://youtu.be/RwSkwh3nWv8 https://youtu.be/RwSkwh3nWv8
throawaywpg 1y ago
Didn't need a Nostradamus to see this coming.
reverendsteveii 1y ago
I already avoid devices that require subscription rather than allowing ownership. If someone decides to change the terms of the deal after I bought the device to gate previously accessible functionality behind a paywall I guarantee that they will never see another nickel of mine for the rest of our shared existence on this earth. I don't actually care that your costs exceed your revenue. Shut down then. It's your problem to price things in a way that pays for your costs as a business, not mine, and it's your problem to uphold agreements you made or to fail as a business.
- dboreham 1y ago
  > avoid devices that require subscription This is fine if the device is stand-alone. But if its operation depends on any back end service, then your choice makes it inevitable that it will cease operating at some point in the future. Nobody, no matter how drugged-up their marketing folks are, is going to provide that service forever for no charge.
  - reverendsteveii 1y ago
    Then it makes an awful lot of sense to get that service for free/at a one-time cost until their marketing team sobers up, doesn't it? It's only a bait and switch if they switch before I get the bait.
baq 1y ago
My smart home actively avoids anything with a cloud sign and tries to avoid anything without a Zigbee logo for exactly this reason. There’s no way a Zigbee device could get flashed with a firmware which requires an external server.
- ldng 1y ago
  Same here, but man, it's hard to find devices with zigbee ... manufacturers all want to sell you their f-ing cloud service. They heard it is more monetizable yet they don't really know how and end up shutting down the service anyway. Long live to (literally) programmed obsolescence. Annoying.
tehlike 1y ago
Homeassistant + zigbee/matter or local wifi is the way to go...
nelblu 1y ago
> “It is regrettable that we now have to spend time and resources strengthening the security of a popular service rather than further developing functionality for the benefit of our customers.” Based on all the data leaks that happen constantly on cloud connected, data harvesting services, I have zero faith that these companies care about security. These companies couldn't care less if they leak personal data online, but god forbid someone is trying to root our device or flash another OS, now suddenly we need to strengthen our security. Fuck these people frankly.
- baq 1y ago
  “Someone tried to outscam us and that would stain our reputation. We mustn’t allow that.” As in, reputation in the eyes of investors and creditors, obviously.
rfwhyte 1y ago
Sounds like the new owners of this already morally and financially bankrupt company are going to go bankrupt all over again if they are trying to pull this kind of scam bait and switch on their small and shrinking user base.
- electrondood 1y ago
  Seriously. Who is going to buy another Futurehome product knowing that they feel entitled to extort their customers, whose only alternative is to remove the devices integrated into their home?
z3ugma 1y ago
This is one of the reasons I am working on an enclosure-compatible open-source version of the 2nd gen Nest thermostat. It reuses the enclosure, encoder ring, display, and mounts of the Nest but replaces the "thinking" part with an open-source PCB that can interact with Home Assistant. Nest Thermostats of the 1st and 2nd generation will no longer be supported by Google starting October 25, 2025. You will still be able to access temperature, mode, schedules, and settings directly on the thermostat – and existing schedules should continue to work uninterrupted. However, these thermostats will no longer receive software or security updates, will not have any Nest app or Home app controls, and Google will end support for other connected features like Home/Away Assist. It has been pretty-badly supported in Home Assistant for over a year anyway, missing important connected features. I've got the faceplate PCB done and working; the rotary encoder and ring working; and the display working but with terrible code with a low refresh rate. I need to ship by October to beat the retirement date. Plans to get some regular development report-outs and pre-orders are coming quite soon. It's open source, and uses ESP32-C6 so it can be Wifi, BLE, or Zigbee, whatever software you intend to load onto it.
- jsiepkes 1y ago
  Sounds cool! What do you think of the opensource smart knob https://github.com/scottbez1/smartknob https://github.com/scottbez1/smartknob ?
  - z3ugma 1y ago
    Oh I love it, I drew some inspiration for rotary encoder options from here actually. It reminds me of the older Senic Nuimo from about 10 years ago with a similar goal. Reusing the Nest is about keeping bill of materials cost very low by reusing old hardware, and not complicating the supply chain with PCB manufacturing plus 3d printing plus metal CNC.
- AShyFig 1y ago
  This sounds really interesting! I'd love to see it when you're done. I wasn't aware that my Nest thermostat was going to be End of Life'd, but I just finished replacing it with an older Honeywell/Zwave combo due to lack of features and general de-googleing. Would be great to do something with the hardware, which is really slick.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
didgetmaster 1y ago
It is one thing for a company to discontinue offering a service that they used to provide for free; but it is completely different to take steps to brick a device that would otherwise continue to work, if the user does not buy something not discussed in the original transaction (e.g. a subscription).
vlod 1y ago
Learnt my lesson with wemo and google nest. Google Home assistant seems to give garbage 50% of the time (see r/googlehome). All in on zigbee and zigbee2mqtt connecting to my local ubuntu server (used for plex as well). I'll write damn custom react-native apps and sideload them onto my android phone then deal with these shitty companies again. If you have the skills, it might be worth investing some time into this. It isn't as hard or scary as you'd imagine.
general1726 1y ago
This is a reason why I would NEVER in my life have anything what is calling itself "smart" controlling any important functions in my house. It is just a trojan horse ready to cripple my own living any time when owners of C2 server will feels like so.
ryandrake 1y ago
This is going to become more and more of a problem with all "smart" device manufacturers whose devices rely on them keeping a backend service stood up. These manufacturers will all eventually 1. go bankrupt, killing their service, 2. end/sunset the service in ways that nerf/brick devices, or 3. start charging for what used to be free. Unlike traditional dumb devices (or local-only smart devices) we cannot rely on these things working as they once did forever. Best bet is to avoid them entirely.
fn-mote 1y ago
This is why I’m so anti-IoT for major appliances in my home (eg refrigerator, washing machine). I want local only, never contact the mothership.
oliwarner 1y ago
A great reminder that one-off hardware costs don't indefinitely cover third party support, especially if that includes services and apps without another obvious revenue stream. A lot of people want to call this switch and bait, or a scam, but consumers need to apply their own critical thinking to purchases like this. Some of these devices have had service for nearly a decade. Is that terrible for a £200 device?
kazinator 1y ago
This is basically sabotage for a ransom demand, which should be punishable by imprisonment.
benabbott 1y ago
I had a Wink hub maybe 7 years ago, I bought it for somewhere around $150. Later, they decided to add a monthly subscription fee to the device. I cut my losses and quit using the thing. I no longer do smart home anything. Switched outlets are great. Relevant Technology Connections: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DGqVbTHX-k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DGqVbTHX-k

86 points by duxup 1y ago

It is hard to overstate how wrong they are doing things if it costs more than a dollar or so per year for managed configuration. I previously worked for a cloud managed device company and it was obscene how high the margin was on the mandatory software licenses we bundled with the hardware and we were also collecting a huge amount of data, not just providing configuration.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
patmorgan23 1y ago
Is that including R&D cost and maintenance? Or just raw hosting cost? These systems are more than just code and need active maintenance and defense.
- Sayrus 1y ago
  If the company went bankrupt and just disappeared, people would still be able to use their device.

bshep 1y ago

This is why if you have a choice you should buy devices that have ‘local only’ option. Unfortunately the masses dont care or dont have the technical knowledge to taoe advantage of it

duxup 1y ago
Agreed, although if it has any online management / phone home / software updates, that can be removed. In the end it's about trust if there's any other party involved. And you hope you can trust the next person who maybe buys the company.
- somanyphotons 1y ago
  > that can be removed. I'm surprised that there isn't more legal action from this behavior
codecutter 1y ago
Other thing I have started doing is to stop doing any upgrade for things that are already working locally. Example: no more upgrades for HP printer software.
sumtechguy 1y ago
The thing is that may not have saved them here. They did an update to make it stop working. You would need to be local only and stay there and never use the online features.
- kube-system 1y ago
  "Auto-executes code from the internet" sounds diametrically opposed to "local only"
  - sumtechguy 1y ago
    Yes. However, what will happen is most will be 'fail to local only' but if that update server ever comes back to life, you are doomed.
- nickthegreek 1y ago
  many smart home products use different protocols than wifi. This means they will not be updated without your knowledge and cannot connect online themselves.

CaliforniaKarl 1y ago

I think it’s worth noting that the company which is charging the subscription fee is not the same company that sold the smart hubs: Futurehome declared bankruptcy in May; this fee is being charged by its successor.

bigmattystyles 1y ago
What about the people? Are they the same?
- owlninja 1y ago
  > The platform and related services were purchased from the bankruptcy estate—50 percent by former Futurehome owners and 50 percent by Sikom Connect—and are now operated by FHSD Connect AS.
phkahler 1y ago
So the company has even less claim to those devices it has damaged.
msgodel 1y ago
It doesn't matter whether it's shareholders or creditors in charge IMO. Neither party have your interests in mind. If you don't have the firmware source and an unlocked bootloader you're only renting the device.
- gruez 1y ago
  That might work for the average HN user that already has a homelab cluster with a dozen kubernetes services running, but for the average joe it might as well be dead.
  - fsflover 1y ago
    This is an old argument. FLOSS firmware allows consumer to pay to any external company to fix the device, thus breaking the artificial monopoly of proprietary software.

gchamonlive 1y ago

Missed opportunity for the article to include the video Rossmann has on this: https://youtu.be/RwSkwh3nWv8 https://youtu.be/RwSkwh3nWv8

throawaywpg 1y ago

Didn't need a Nostradamus to see this coming.

reverendsteveii 1y ago

I already avoid devices that require subscription rather than allowing ownership. If someone decides to change the terms of the deal after I bought the device to gate previously accessible functionality behind a paywall I guarantee that they will never see another nickel of mine for the rest of our shared existence on this earth. I don't actually care that your costs exceed your revenue. Shut down then. It's your problem to price things in a way that pays for your costs as a business, not mine, and it's your problem to uphold agreements you made or to fail as a business.

dboreham 1y ago
> avoid devices that require subscription This is fine if the device is stand-alone. But if its operation depends on any back end service, then your choice makes it inevitable that it will cease operating at some point in the future. Nobody, no matter how drugged-up their marketing folks are, is going to provide that service forever for no charge.
- reverendsteveii 1y ago
  Then it makes an awful lot of sense to get that service for free/at a one-time cost until their marketing team sobers up, doesn't it? It's only a bait and switch if they switch before I get the bait.

baq 1y ago

My smart home actively avoids anything with a cloud sign and tries to avoid anything without a Zigbee logo for exactly this reason. There’s no way a Zigbee device could get flashed with a firmware which requires an external server.

ldng 1y ago
Same here, but man, it's hard to find devices with zigbee ... manufacturers all want to sell you their f-ing cloud service. They heard it is more monetizable yet they don't really know how and end up shutting down the service anyway. Long live to (literally) programmed obsolescence. Annoying.

tehlike 1y ago

Homeassistant + zigbee/matter or local wifi is the way to go...

nelblu 1y ago

> “It is regrettable that we now have to spend time and resources strengthening the security of a popular service rather than further developing functionality for the benefit of our customers.” Based on all the data leaks that happen constantly on cloud connected, data harvesting services, I have zero faith that these companies care about security. These companies couldn't care less if they leak personal data online, but god forbid someone is trying to root our device or flash another OS, now suddenly we need to strengthen our security. Fuck these people frankly.

baq 1y ago
“Someone tried to outscam us and that would stain our reputation. We mustn’t allow that.” As in, reputation in the eyes of investors and creditors, obviously.

rfwhyte 1y ago

Sounds like the new owners of this already morally and financially bankrupt company are going to go bankrupt all over again if they are trying to pull this kind of scam bait and switch on their small and shrinking user base.

electrondood 1y ago
Seriously. Who is going to buy another Futurehome product knowing that they feel entitled to extort their customers, whose only alternative is to remove the devices integrated into their home?

z3ugma 1y ago

This is one of the reasons I am working on an enclosure-compatible open-source version of the 2nd gen Nest thermostat. It reuses the enclosure, encoder ring, display, and mounts of the Nest but replaces the "thinking" part with an open-source PCB that can interact with Home Assistant. Nest Thermostats of the 1st and 2nd generation will no longer be supported by Google starting October 25, 2025. You will still be able to access temperature, mode, schedules, and settings directly on the thermostat – and existing schedules should continue to work uninterrupted. However, these thermostats will no longer receive software or security updates, will not have any Nest app or Home app controls, and Google will end support for other connected features like Home/Away Assist. It has been pretty-badly supported in Home Assistant for over a year anyway, missing important connected features. I've got the faceplate PCB done and working; the rotary encoder and ring working; and the display working but with terrible code with a low refresh rate. I need to ship by October to beat the retirement date. Plans to get some regular development report-outs and pre-orders are coming quite soon. It's open source, and uses ESP32-C6 so it can be Wifi, BLE, or Zigbee, whatever software you intend to load onto it.

jsiepkes 1y ago
Sounds cool! What do you think of the opensource smart knob https://github.com/scottbez1/smartknob https://github.com/scottbez1/smartknob ?
- z3ugma 1y ago
  Oh I love it, I drew some inspiration for rotary encoder options from here actually. It reminds me of the older Senic Nuimo from about 10 years ago with a similar goal. Reusing the Nest is about keeping bill of materials cost very low by reusing old hardware, and not complicating the supply chain with PCB manufacturing plus 3d printing plus metal CNC.
AShyFig 1y ago
This sounds really interesting! I'd love to see it when you're done. I wasn't aware that my Nest thermostat was going to be End of Life'd, but I just finished replacing it with an older Honeywell/Zwave combo due to lack of features and general de-googleing. Would be great to do something with the hardware, which is really slick.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

didgetmaster 1y ago

It is one thing for a company to discontinue offering a service that they used to provide for free; but it is completely different to take steps to brick a device that would otherwise continue to work, if the user does not buy something not discussed in the original transaction (e.g. a subscription).

vlod 1y ago

Learnt my lesson with wemo and google nest. Google Home assistant seems to give garbage 50% of the time (see r/googlehome). All in on zigbee and zigbee2mqtt connecting to my local ubuntu server (used for plex as well). I'll write damn custom react-native apps and sideload them onto my android phone then deal with these shitty companies again. If you have the skills, it might be worth investing some time into this. It isn't as hard or scary as you'd imagine.

general1726 1y ago

This is a reason why I would NEVER in my life have anything what is calling itself "smart" controlling any important functions in my house. It is just a trojan horse ready to cripple my own living any time when owners of C2 server will feels like so.

ryandrake 1y ago

This is going to become more and more of a problem with all "smart" device manufacturers whose devices rely on them keeping a backend service stood up. These manufacturers will all eventually 1. go bankrupt, killing their service, 2. end/sunset the service in ways that nerf/brick devices, or 3. start charging for what used to be free. Unlike traditional dumb devices (or local-only smart devices) we cannot rely on these things working as they once did forever. Best bet is to avoid them entirely.

fn-mote 1y ago

This is why I’m so anti-IoT for major appliances in my home (eg refrigerator, washing machine). I want local only, never contact the mothership.

oliwarner 1y ago

A great reminder that one-off hardware costs don't indefinitely cover third party support, especially if that includes services and apps without another obvious revenue stream. A lot of people want to call this switch and bait, or a scam, but consumers need to apply their own critical thinking to purchases like this. Some of these devices have had service for nearly a decade. Is that terrible for a £200 device?

kazinator 1y ago

This is basically sabotage for a ransom demand, which should be punishable by imprisonment.

benabbott 1y ago

I had a Wink hub maybe 7 years ago, I bought it for somewhere around $150. Later, they decided to add a monthly subscription fee to the device. I cut my losses and quit using the thing. I no longer do smart home anything. Switched outlets are great. Relevant Technology Connections: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DGqVbTHX-k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DGqVbTHX-k