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The UK is an increasingly authoritarian nightmare. The US should start a refugee program for UK citizens who understand what freedom actually means and want to

by pc86 1y ago

The UK is an increasingly authoritarian nightmare. The US should start a refugee program for UK citizens who understand what freedom actually means and want to live in a free country again.

rdudek 1y ago
What makes you think it's any better here in the US? There is a worldwide rise toward nationalism/authoritarianism.
- hollerith 1y ago
  Right, but it is not the nationalists in the UK that passed the Online Safety Act discussed in the OP.
louthy 1y ago
> The UK is an increasingly authoritarian nightmare. The US should start a refugee program for UK Hilarious, you literally have a president shutting down free speech by getting a talkshow taken off the air so that the owning media company can pass its merger regulations; he’s also threatening to sue or actually suing other media organisations, universities, newspapers,... And on top of all that has built a private militia to grab people off the street and deport them. All while major corporations have so much money and control over the government and its representatives that individuals have little to no say in how things are done. And let’s not even start on the electoral system that encourages only the issues of a few states to ever be ‘heard’. The whole country is indoctrinated to pledge allegiance to the flag and is taught that the constitution is of equivalent standing as the stone tablets brought down from Mount Sinai, leaving you all more vulnerable in a world where anybody can say anything and have it broadcast to billions of people at once. Or, you know, to being shot. You're indoctrinated to believe that the founding fathers were infallible geniuses, when they were just men, with opinions. Often in these discussions we get quotes like: "Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." That was said by a man, a regular man. He said a thing. It is entirely devoid of nuance, but you will all recite like it's the word of god. It's a form of self-oppression in its own right. The vast majority of so-called oppressive laws introduced in the UK were well meaning, not done for power (like with your current president). The anti-hate speech laws were brought about because preachers were openly indoctrinating people who went on to commit atrocities like 7/7. I have never fallen fowl of those laws because I don't preach hate and foment violence. But to Ben Franklin that's the thin end of the wedge. This latest law is for sure misguided, but it came from a desire to reduce online harm for children -- more opposition was needed when it was going through parliament. I get it, they messed up, it's bad law, but we also have a parliamentary system that functions, so it will almost certainly be refined over time. The goals are right, the implementation is wrong, but that doesn't mean the UK is falling into authoritarianism. We're not trying to overturn elections, or you know, stop them altogether. The idea that the US is some paragon of freedom and liberty is utter, utter nonsense. It’s more fucked than the UK will ever be.
- pc86 1y ago
  WALLOFTEXT notwithstanding, doing bad things for good reasons is not in and of itself any better than doing bad things for bad reasons.
  - louthy 1y ago
    Yeah, it objectively is better. Because if the government is trying to do good things and they mess up in the process, then good people can change it. But if the people are bad, then they're gonna do bad regardless. One is a functioning democracy, one is sliding into authoritarianism. You wrote: "The UK is an increasingly authoritarian nightmare." - it just isn't. For those of us who live here, nothing is really different. Not being able to access porn without a VPN is not the definition of "authoritarian nightmare". The UK, for sure, has its problems. Some related to our democracy. But it isn't on the precipice of losing its democracy altogether (like the US).
    - pc86 1y ago
      > Not being able to access porn without a VPN is not the definition of "authoritarian nightmare". Linking your real identity to the ability to load text on a computer you own absolutely is. Not being able to step out onto the street without having 50 government-operated cameras take your picture absolutely is. "Knife control" absolutely is. > But it isn't on the precipice of losing its democracy altogether (like the US). Good god come on. I hope I remember to come back here after the next election and accept your apology.
      - foldr 1y ago
        Assuming you live in the US, I sincerely recommend that you take all the energy you’re expending decrying the UK’s supposed slide into authoritarianism and see if you can find a way to use that energy to do something about masked thugs kidnapping US citizens, or stop scientific research being defunded for political reasons. How much time have you even spent in the UK? We have our problems for sure, but it’s baffling that anyone in the US at present would feel that they were in a position to lecture us on freem and moxy. Also, as sibling says, you’re simply misinformed about CCTV. There is no centralized government-operated network of CCTV cameras. In fact, all figures you read about total numbers of CCTV cameras are basically just guesses, as there is no accurate way to track numbers of privately operated cameras.
captainbland 1y ago
The frying pan is uncomfortable and everything but the fire is failing to tempt me.
MattPalmer1086 1y ago
Many in the UK find the US quite a frightening place right now. We will also welcome US refugees into the UK! Don't want to create a refugee-deficit after all ;)
hollerith 1y ago
It wouldn't be the first time: when the Parliamentarians gained control over England in the English Civil War, large number of Cavaliers fled to the American colonies.
nkohari 1y ago
> The US should start a refugee program for UK citizens who understand what freedom actually means and want to live in a free country again. I ask this in all seriousness: have you been paying attention to what's happening recently in the US?

by pc86 1y ago

The UK is an increasingly authoritarian nightmare. The US should start a refugee program for UK citizens who understand what freedom actually means and want to live in a free country again.

rdudek 1y ago

What makes you think it's any better here in the US? There is a worldwide rise toward nationalism/authoritarianism.

hollerith 1y ago
Right, but it is not the nationalists in the UK that passed the Online Safety Act discussed in the OP.

louthy 1y ago

> The UK is an increasingly authoritarian nightmare. The US should start a refugee program for UK Hilarious, you literally have a president shutting down free speech by getting a talkshow taken off the air so that the owning media company can pass its merger regulations; he’s also threatening to sue or actually suing other media organisations, universities, newspapers,... And on top of all that has built a private militia to grab people off the street and deport them. All while major corporations have so much money and control over the government and its representatives that individuals have little to no say in how things are done. And let’s not even start on the electoral system that encourages only the issues of a few states to ever be ‘heard’. The whole country is indoctrinated to pledge allegiance to the flag and is taught that the constitution is of equivalent standing as the stone tablets brought down from Mount Sinai, leaving you all more vulnerable in a world where anybody can say anything and have it broadcast to billions of people at once. Or, you know, to being shot. You're indoctrinated to believe that the founding fathers were infallible geniuses, when they were just men, with opinions. Often in these discussions we get quotes like: "Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." That was said by a man, a regular man. He said a thing. It is entirely devoid of nuance, but you will all recite like it's the word of god. It's a form of self-oppression in its own right. The vast majority of so-called oppressive laws introduced in the UK were well meaning, not done for power (like with your current president). The anti-hate speech laws were brought about because preachers were openly indoctrinating people who went on to commit atrocities like 7/7. I have never fallen fowl of those laws because I don't preach hate and foment violence. But to Ben Franklin that's the thin end of the wedge. This latest law is for sure misguided, but it came from a desire to reduce online harm for children -- more opposition was needed when it was going through parliament. I get it, they messed up, it's bad law, but we also have a parliamentary system that functions, so it will almost certainly be refined over time. The goals are right, the implementation is wrong, but that doesn't mean the UK is falling into authoritarianism. We're not trying to overturn elections, or you know, stop them altogether. The idea that the US is some paragon of freedom and liberty is utter, utter nonsense. It’s more fucked than the UK will ever be.

pc86 1y ago
WALLOFTEXT notwithstanding, doing bad things for good reasons is not in and of itself any better than doing bad things for bad reasons.
- louthy 1y ago
  Yeah, it objectively is better. Because if the government is trying to do good things and they mess up in the process, then good people can change it. But if the people are bad, then they're gonna do bad regardless. One is a functioning democracy, one is sliding into authoritarianism. You wrote: "The UK is an increasingly authoritarian nightmare." - it just isn't. For those of us who live here, nothing is really different. Not being able to access porn without a VPN is not the definition of "authoritarian nightmare". The UK, for sure, has its problems. Some related to our democracy. But it isn't on the precipice of losing its democracy altogether (like the US).
  - pc86 1y ago
    > Not being able to access porn without a VPN is not the definition of "authoritarian nightmare". Linking your real identity to the ability to load text on a computer you own absolutely is. Not being able to step out onto the street without having 50 government-operated cameras take your picture absolutely is. "Knife control" absolutely is. > But it isn't on the precipice of losing its democracy altogether (like the US). Good god come on. I hope I remember to come back here after the next election and accept your apology.
    - foldr 1y ago
      Assuming you live in the US, I sincerely recommend that you take all the energy you’re expending decrying the UK’s supposed slide into authoritarianism and see if you can find a way to use that energy to do something about masked thugs kidnapping US citizens, or stop scientific research being defunded for political reasons. How much time have you even spent in the UK? We have our problems for sure, but it’s baffling that anyone in the US at present would feel that they were in a position to lecture us on freem and moxy. Also, as sibling says, you’re simply misinformed about CCTV. There is no centralized government-operated network of CCTV cameras. In fact, all figures you read about total numbers of CCTV cameras are basically just guesses, as there is no accurate way to track numbers of privately operated cameras.

captainbland 1y ago

The frying pan is uncomfortable and everything but the fire is failing to tempt me.

MattPalmer1086 1y ago

Many in the UK find the US quite a frightening place right now. We will also welcome US refugees into the UK! Don't want to create a refugee-deficit after all ;)

hollerith 1y ago

It wouldn't be the first time: when the Parliamentarians gained control over England in the English Civil War, large number of Cavaliers fled to the American colonies.

nkohari 1y ago

> The US should start a refugee program for UK citizens who understand what freedom actually means and want to live in a free country again. I ask this in all seriousness: have you been paying attention to what's happening recently in the US?