4 ms·

Any shakedown by MS in the PC space extremely unlikely to fly given the terms of settlement in the antitrust case in both the US and EU and restrictions still i

Any shakedown by MS in the PC space extremely unlikely to fly given the terms of settlement in the antitrust case in both the US and EU and restrictions still in place in the EU on the browser choice screen, requiring network and document specs etc. Hell, B&N even tried the antitrust angle in the Android tablet patents cae.

rbanffy 14y ago
> Any shakedown by MS in the PC space extremely unlikely to fly Not if they have a good excuse (patents Android OEMs consider valid enough to license). > Hell, B&N even tried the antitrust angle in the Android tablet patents cae. Unfortunately, Microsoft and B&N became "partners" before the list of secret patents became public.
- recoiledsnake 14y ago
  I find this discussion increasingly irrelevant. It's hard to make the case that companies like Samsung or Dell are not pushing Linux more just because MS may increase their Android requirements. Even a hint of any such thing will result in a multibillion dollar fine paid to the OEMs and injunction against MS in the courts. What about the fact that there is little interest in the general public for Linux(due to many reasons including Wintel and Office monopolies) and the OEMs are hampered more by that and the reasons in my OP above rather than your weak reasoning? Have you seen how few Chromebooks have been sold? Do you really think MS hampered them with their patent licensing deals(there have been a couple) or do you think there are much bigger reasons that ChromeOS/Linux hasn't taken off ? What about new companies like System76? Why don't you start a new company that sells Linux PCs? Do you know how Dell or Compaq started? It was just one or two people in a garage assembling PCs and throwing DOS on them. The difference was that people bought a lot of them. http://www.zdnet.com/chromebook-looks-like-another-googleflop-4010024772/ http://www.zdnet.com/chromebook-looks-like-another-googleflo... This whole blame MS for everything regardless of real issues attitude is getting old.
  - rbanffy 14y ago
    You argue there is no demand and I say that, even if there was a demand, the PC margins woulds not support the Microsoft taxes associated with Linux. You say Microsoft would not extort PC makers like they do with Android makers but there is no evidence for that. If you have any documents suggesting otherwise, it would be nice if you could produce them. Besides, when all PC makers depend so much on Microsoft, there are many other creative ways to punish OEMs who want to be more independent without raising too many eyebrows.
    - recoiledsnake 14y ago
      >Microsoft would not extort PC makers like they do with Android makers but there is no evidence for that. If you have any documents suggesting otherwise, it would be nice if you could produce them. I shall do exactly that. http://www.justice.gov/atr/cases/f200400/200457.htm http://www.justice.gov/atr/cases/f200400/200457.htm >A. Microsoft shall not retaliate against an OEM by altering Microsoft's commercial relations with that OEM, or by withholding newly introduced forms of non-monetary Consideration (including but not limited to new versions of existing forms of non-monetary Consideration) from that OEM, because it is known to Microsoft that the OEM is or is contemplating: developing, distributing, promoting, using, selling, or licensing any software that competes with Microsoft Platform Software or any product or service that distributes or promotes any Non-Microsoft Middleware; shipping a Personal Computer that (a) includes both a Windows Operating System Product and a non-Microsoft Operating System, or (b) will boot with more than one Operating System; or exercising any of the options or alternatives provided for under this Final Judgment. >Besides, when all PC makers depend so much on Microsoft, there are many other creative ways to punish OEMs who want to be more independent without raising too many eyebrows If an OEM can prove it, billions of dollars to them in court. Maybe System76 can be the big Linux OEM, except that Linux folks buy Thinkpads or Macs. https://www.system76.com/ https://www.system76.com/ Do you have any documentation that MS is suing them?
      - batgaijin 14y ago
        >Do you have any documentation that MS is suing them? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Of course not, just public threats and deals. 1). http://www.chromebookblog.com/2011/07/microsoft-chromebook-supplier-wistron-sign-patent-agreement/ http://www.chromebookblog.com/2011/07/microsoft-chromebook-s... 2). http://gearburn.com/2012/07/new-microsoft-patent-deal-is-a-linux-loving-venture/ http://gearburn.com/2012/07/new-microsoft-patent-deal-is-a-l... 3). http://www.geekwire.com/2012/judge-microsofts-android-tactics-hard-bargaining-patent-misuse/ http://www.geekwire.com/2012/judge-microsofts-android-tactic... 4). http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-inks-patent-deal-with-service-provider-using-linux-servers-7000001498/ http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-inks-patent-deal-with-service...

rbanffy 14y ago

> Any shakedown by MS in the PC space extremely unlikely to fly Not if they have a good excuse (patents Android OEMs consider valid enough to license). > Hell, B&N even tried the antitrust angle in the Android tablet patents cae. Unfortunately, Microsoft and B&N became "partners" before the list of secret patents became public.

recoiledsnake 14y ago
I find this discussion increasingly irrelevant. It's hard to make the case that companies like Samsung or Dell are not pushing Linux more just because MS may increase their Android requirements. Even a hint of any such thing will result in a multibillion dollar fine paid to the OEMs and injunction against MS in the courts. What about the fact that there is little interest in the general public for Linux(due to many reasons including Wintel and Office monopolies) and the OEMs are hampered more by that and the reasons in my OP above rather than your weak reasoning? Have you seen how few Chromebooks have been sold? Do you really think MS hampered them with their patent licensing deals(there have been a couple) or do you think there are much bigger reasons that ChromeOS/Linux hasn't taken off ? What about new companies like System76? Why don't you start a new company that sells Linux PCs? Do you know how Dell or Compaq started? It was just one or two people in a garage assembling PCs and throwing DOS on them. The difference was that people bought a lot of them. http://www.zdnet.com/chromebook-looks-like-another-googleflop-4010024772/ http://www.zdnet.com/chromebook-looks-like-another-googleflo... This whole blame MS for everything regardless of real issues attitude is getting old.
- rbanffy 14y ago
  You argue there is no demand and I say that, even if there was a demand, the PC margins woulds not support the Microsoft taxes associated with Linux. You say Microsoft would not extort PC makers like they do with Android makers but there is no evidence for that. If you have any documents suggesting otherwise, it would be nice if you could produce them. Besides, when all PC makers depend so much on Microsoft, there are many other creative ways to punish OEMs who want to be more independent without raising too many eyebrows.
  - recoiledsnake 14y ago
    >Microsoft would not extort PC makers like they do with Android makers but there is no evidence for that. If you have any documents suggesting otherwise, it would be nice if you could produce them. I shall do exactly that. http://www.justice.gov/atr/cases/f200400/200457.htm http://www.justice.gov/atr/cases/f200400/200457.htm >A. Microsoft shall not retaliate against an OEM by altering Microsoft's commercial relations with that OEM, or by withholding newly introduced forms of non-monetary Consideration (including but not limited to new versions of existing forms of non-monetary Consideration) from that OEM, because it is known to Microsoft that the OEM is or is contemplating: developing, distributing, promoting, using, selling, or licensing any software that competes with Microsoft Platform Software or any product or service that distributes or promotes any Non-Microsoft Middleware; shipping a Personal Computer that (a) includes both a Windows Operating System Product and a non-Microsoft Operating System, or (b) will boot with more than one Operating System; or exercising any of the options or alternatives provided for under this Final Judgment. >Besides, when all PC makers depend so much on Microsoft, there are many other creative ways to punish OEMs who want to be more independent without raising too many eyebrows If an OEM can prove it, billions of dollars to them in court. Maybe System76 can be the big Linux OEM, except that Linux folks buy Thinkpads or Macs. https://www.system76.com/ https://www.system76.com/ Do you have any documentation that MS is suing them?
    - batgaijin 14y ago
      >Do you have any documentation that MS is suing them? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Of course not, just public threats and deals. 1). http://www.chromebookblog.com/2011/07/microsoft-chromebook-supplier-wistron-sign-patent-agreement/ http://www.chromebookblog.com/2011/07/microsoft-chromebook-s... 2). http://gearburn.com/2012/07/new-microsoft-patent-deal-is-a-linux-loving-venture/ http://gearburn.com/2012/07/new-microsoft-patent-deal-is-a-l... 3). http://www.geekwire.com/2012/judge-microsofts-android-tactics-hard-bargaining-patent-misuse/ http://www.geekwire.com/2012/judge-microsofts-android-tactic... 4). http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-inks-patent-deal-with-service-provider-using-linux-servers-7000001498/ http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-inks-patent-deal-with-service...