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100% no. I've been on the bench for about a year, but I spent the last 15 years as a pretty intense recreational cyclist. I was in the tier that you might desc

100% no. I've been on the bench for about a year, but I spent the last 15 years as a pretty intense recreational cyclist. I was in the tier that you might describe as "the craziest you get without having a racing license." There were very few steel bikes on those rides -- say, less than 10-15%. Carbon is by far the most common material, followed by Ti for the more well-heeled folks. Most of the steel is "modern", but there are some vintage frames, too. I rode a boutique steel frame from Ritte for a long time, but went to a lovely carbon Giant about 2 years ago after the steel frame failed, which astonished me and everyone I knew. It's honestly better in every way -- quicker, lighter, more comfortable, etc. The vintage steel frames these groups are generally pretty high end holdovers. You leave some stuff behind by staying on a frame from the 80s or 90s, and some of those things really WILL make you slower vs. a modern hot-rod frame, but if you're strong enough you can make the trade. Weight's one, but so is gearing. Current normal for a road bike is 11 or 12 cogs in the rear, which means you have a VERY smooth progression as you accelerate. And older frame might not accommodate electronic shifting, either, which I'd be loathe to give up now. In non-flat places it might matter that the older frames won't allow for disc brake systems, but where I lived (Houston) that didn't matter.

stockresearcher 1y ago
Sure, a modern drivetrain and brakes would be a necessity on a “LeMond reboot”. My new wheels have rim brakes - I would have added disc if I could. And the rear wheel/hub has room for an extra cog on the cassette. But I feel that once I wear everything out, I’m going to have to bite the bullet and get a new bike rather than fight against the lack of new equipment that fits old bikes :(
- kjkjadksj 1y ago
  No you won’t. Shimano still makes new 7 speed groups even.
kjkjadksj 1y ago
The only things an older frame won’t accommodate is electronic shifting and disk brakes. You can run 12 speed its the same cassette width as its always been since probably 7 speed. Stuff like external cables actually are better for you as someone who isn’t a pro cyclist since shifting is smoother without under handle wraps, cables last longer with less tension in the brifter. Easier to service yourself than running the cables in the stem or frame. 8 speed better too because the chain and cassettes will last forever vs thinner higher speed stuff. Gear range is probably the same just with more increments so you get away with fewer shifts on 8 speed and just use your legs to find the gear and cadence balance. People did big descents just fine on rim brakes for decades until they came out with disk and made it seem like an issue.
- crashbunny 1y ago
  i don't know if braking performance is the main reason for disk brakes. I suspect the biggest benefit is bike makers get to sell new bikes to people who don't need new bikes. For professional riders who don't buy their own bikes, it's probably more about areo, and maybe weight, as the rims don't need a braking surface. They have more creativity with the shape and material. They only brake for emergencies and going into a corner on a downhill. A tiny fraction of a stage. The areo benefit is for the full length of the stage. I don't know much about physics but even if the weight of the disks is more than rims brakes, the weight being closer to the centre of the wheel might be a benefit. I suspect in terms of performance, aero is the biggest benefit, though. even the 12 speed cassettes, from what I've read, accelerating smoothly isn't the main point. for a professional rider, they spend a lot more time at the same speed than they do accelerating. so being able to dial in the perfect gear for the speed, wind and gradient is more important than being able to accelerate smoothly.
  - kjkjadksj 1y ago
    You gain different rim designs sure. But you also lose out on fork innovation as the disk side of the fork is now particularly strengthened. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are some pro rider who would still ride rims if their sponsors allowed for it.
  - ubermonkey 1y ago
    Aero matters a lot, even for enthusiastic amateurs. You're spot on about wheel shape being more flexible with disc brakes vs. rim. Materials matter here, too -- early carbon wheels were crap at stopping vs alloy because the rim brake tracks were iffy on the carbon, and if you let them get too hot on a descent you'd ruin the wheel. But carbon wheels are an ENORMOUS upgrade over alloy in terms of weight, and in terms of aerodynamics, so the desire for carbon helped fuel the shift to disc braking. Discs are also absolutely better at stopping the bike, especially if it's hilly and SUPER especially if it's wet (or muddy, which is why off road bikes took to disc first). Even in a flat place like Houston where we never would've gone to disc in the absence of market forces, we all realized quickly how much nicer they were. It's a definite upgrade. You're also right about the cassette. More cogs mean we can have a wider range AND preserve the small steps between them, which is great for finding the right cadence in a paceline just as it is for accelerating.
AtlasBarfed 1y ago
You forgot aerodynamics. They windtest and wind-design even road bikes: shaped tubes, removing cables/electronic shifting, wheel - frame airflow shapers, etc.

stockresearcher 1y ago

Sure, a modern drivetrain and brakes would be a necessity on a “LeMond reboot”. My new wheels have rim brakes - I would have added disc if I could. And the rear wheel/hub has room for an extra cog on the cassette. But I feel that once I wear everything out, I’m going to have to bite the bullet and get a new bike rather than fight against the lack of new equipment that fits old bikes :(

kjkjadksj 1y ago
No you won’t. Shimano still makes new 7 speed groups even.

kjkjadksj 1y ago

The only things an older frame won’t accommodate is electronic shifting and disk brakes. You can run 12 speed its the same cassette width as its always been since probably 7 speed. Stuff like external cables actually are better for you as someone who isn’t a pro cyclist since shifting is smoother without under handle wraps, cables last longer with less tension in the brifter. Easier to service yourself than running the cables in the stem or frame. 8 speed better too because the chain and cassettes will last forever vs thinner higher speed stuff. Gear range is probably the same just with more increments so you get away with fewer shifts on 8 speed and just use your legs to find the gear and cadence balance. People did big descents just fine on rim brakes for decades until they came out with disk and made it seem like an issue.

crashbunny 1y ago
i don't know if braking performance is the main reason for disk brakes. I suspect the biggest benefit is bike makers get to sell new bikes to people who don't need new bikes. For professional riders who don't buy their own bikes, it's probably more about areo, and maybe weight, as the rims don't need a braking surface. They have more creativity with the shape and material. They only brake for emergencies and going into a corner on a downhill. A tiny fraction of a stage. The areo benefit is for the full length of the stage. I don't know much about physics but even if the weight of the disks is more than rims brakes, the weight being closer to the centre of the wheel might be a benefit. I suspect in terms of performance, aero is the biggest benefit, though. even the 12 speed cassettes, from what I've read, accelerating smoothly isn't the main point. for a professional rider, they spend a lot more time at the same speed than they do accelerating. so being able to dial in the perfect gear for the speed, wind and gradient is more important than being able to accelerate smoothly.
- kjkjadksj 1y ago
  You gain different rim designs sure. But you also lose out on fork innovation as the disk side of the fork is now particularly strengthened. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are some pro rider who would still ride rims if their sponsors allowed for it.
- ubermonkey 1y ago
  Aero matters a lot, even for enthusiastic amateurs. You're spot on about wheel shape being more flexible with disc brakes vs. rim. Materials matter here, too -- early carbon wheels were crap at stopping vs alloy because the rim brake tracks were iffy on the carbon, and if you let them get too hot on a descent you'd ruin the wheel. But carbon wheels are an ENORMOUS upgrade over alloy in terms of weight, and in terms of aerodynamics, so the desire for carbon helped fuel the shift to disc braking. Discs are also absolutely better at stopping the bike, especially if it's hilly and SUPER especially if it's wet (or muddy, which is why off road bikes took to disc first). Even in a flat place like Houston where we never would've gone to disc in the absence of market forces, we all realized quickly how much nicer they were. It's a definite upgrade. You're also right about the cassette. More cogs mean we can have a wider range AND preserve the small steps between them, which is great for finding the right cadence in a paceline just as it is for accelerating.

AtlasBarfed 1y ago

You forgot aerodynamics. They windtest and wind-design even road bikes: shaped tubes, removing cables/electronic shifting, wheel - frame airflow shapers, etc.