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I disagree. While there are developers that truly build new technology and invent novel solutions, the overwhelming majority of developers who are paid for thei

by atonse 1y ago

I disagree. While there are developers that truly build new technology and invent novel solutions, the overwhelming majority of developers who are paid for their work daily do pretty mundane and boring software development. They are implementing business logic, building forms, building tables, etc. And AI already excels at building those sorts of things faster and with cleaner code. I’ve never once seen a model generate code that’s as ugly and unreadable as a lot of the low quality code I’ve seen in my career (especially from Salesforce “devs” for example) And even the ones that do the more creative problem solving can benefit from AI agents helping with research, documentation, data migration scripts, etc.

conartist6 1y ago
I'm one working on novel tech, without AI. I've never been doing more valuable work or been more in command of my craft. Yet the blanket statement is that I will fail and be replaced, and in fact that people like me don't exist! So heck yeah I'll come clap back on that.
- jennyholzer 1y ago
  Continuing to develop my craft in the 4th straight year of numbskulls claiming that Chat GPT is the end of history has made me extraordinarily confident in my ability to secure lucrative developer work for the rest of my life.
  - cindyllm 1y ago
    [dead]
  - atonse 1y ago
    It is not productive to call people numbskulls and make straw-man arguments just because you don't agree with their statements, or may not have observed the same benefits that they have. There is absolutely something real here, whether you choose to believe it or not. I'd recommend taking a good faith and open minded look at the last few months of developments. See where it can benefit you (and where it still falls way short). So even if you may have arrived at your conclusion years ago, I assure you that things continue to improve by the week. You will be pleasantly surprised. This is not all or nothing, nor does it have to be.
    - jennyholzer 1y ago
      [flagged]
- infecto 1y ago
  Your interpretation of the original quote is so far off that I would question your interpretation of the world. Sure novel stuff is being built but the vast majority of code at all sizes of companies has been written before in some iteration. Even for the novel work being done, it’s being surrounded by layers of code that has probably being written before. Are engineers going anywhere? No. But I also don’t think it’s far fetched to see a possible near term of competent engineers who use AI tools being more productive than the ones who don’t. I am not talking about copy and pasting but rather thoughtful use of tooling.
  - conartist6 1y ago
    But "more productive" is a wording I also take issue with. Code is like law. The goal isn't to have a lot of it. Come to me when by "more productive" you actually mean that the person using the LLM deleted more lines of code than anyone else around them while preserving the stability and power of the system
    - infecto 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - jennyholzer 1y ago
        I thought you were supposed to be boosting AI? Why are you so bitter? You aren't going to sell any snake oil with this venomous strategy.
        conartist6 1y ago
        I think I started the bitterness. I'm sorry. Everyone has genuine hurt. People who have bought the AI product are hurt because they're weakened and vulnerable by their dependence on buying their own productivity back from a reseller who is now raising the prices. I get cheesed off cause the AI people disrespect hard work and try to devalue its rewards, and that message is just toxic to anyone trying to learn. You can't master a musical instrument by paying an assistant to practice it for you.
- atonse 1y ago
  Right, I chose my words carefully when I said the "overwhelming majority" – and not "every single developer"
apwell23 1y ago
> the overwhelming majority of developers who are paid for their work daily do pretty mundane and boring software developmet So are musicians. We think of them as doing creative stuff but a vast majority is mundane.
- staunton 1y ago
  Most musicians (i.e. non-famous ones) get most of their income from teaching students. I don't think such a model makes sense for developers (though who knows, maybe at some time in the future there will be significant numbers of people programming as a hobby and wanting to be coached by a human...)
  - hecanjog 1y ago
    It really depends. I think if there's a majority trend, it's just to have another job of any kind.
myko 1y ago
> and with cleaner code I use AI pretty extensively and encourage my folks to use it as well but I've yet to see this come directly from an LLM. With human effort after the fact, sure, but LLMs tend to write inscrutable messes when left to their own devices.

by atonse 1y ago

conartist6 1y ago

I'm one working on novel tech, without AI. I've never been doing more valuable work or been more in command of my craft. Yet the blanket statement is that I will fail and be replaced, and in fact that people like me don't exist! So heck yeah I'll come clap back on that.

jennyholzer 1y ago
Continuing to develop my craft in the 4th straight year of numbskulls claiming that Chat GPT is the end of history has made me extraordinarily confident in my ability to secure lucrative developer work for the rest of my life.
- cindyllm 1y ago
  [dead]
- atonse 1y ago
  It is not productive to call people numbskulls and make straw-man arguments just because you don't agree with their statements, or may not have observed the same benefits that they have. There is absolutely something real here, whether you choose to believe it or not. I'd recommend taking a good faith and open minded look at the last few months of developments. See where it can benefit you (and where it still falls way short). So even if you may have arrived at your conclusion years ago, I assure you that things continue to improve by the week. You will be pleasantly surprised. This is not all or nothing, nor does it have to be.
  - jennyholzer 1y ago
    [flagged]
infecto 1y ago
Your interpretation of the original quote is so far off that I would question your interpretation of the world. Sure novel stuff is being built but the vast majority of code at all sizes of companies has been written before in some iteration. Even for the novel work being done, it’s being surrounded by layers of code that has probably being written before. Are engineers going anywhere? No. But I also don’t think it’s far fetched to see a possible near term of competent engineers who use AI tools being more productive than the ones who don’t. I am not talking about copy and pasting but rather thoughtful use of tooling.
- conartist6 1y ago
  But "more productive" is a wording I also take issue with. Code is like law. The goal isn't to have a lot of it. Come to me when by "more productive" you actually mean that the person using the LLM deleted more lines of code than anyone else around them while preserving the stability and power of the system
  - infecto 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - jennyholzer 1y ago
      I thought you were supposed to be boosting AI? Why are you so bitter? You aren't going to sell any snake oil with this venomous strategy.
      - conartist6 1y ago
        I think I started the bitterness. I'm sorry. Everyone has genuine hurt. People who have bought the AI product are hurt because they're weakened and vulnerable by their dependence on buying their own productivity back from a reseller who is now raising the prices. I get cheesed off cause the AI people disrespect hard work and try to devalue its rewards, and that message is just toxic to anyone trying to learn. You can't master a musical instrument by paying an assistant to practice it for you.
atonse 1y ago
Right, I chose my words carefully when I said the "overwhelming majority" – and not "every single developer"

apwell23 1y ago

> the overwhelming majority of developers who are paid for their work daily do pretty mundane and boring software developmet So are musicians. We think of them as doing creative stuff but a vast majority is mundane.

staunton 1y ago
Most musicians (i.e. non-famous ones) get most of their income from teaching students. I don't think such a model makes sense for developers (though who knows, maybe at some time in the future there will be significant numbers of people programming as a hobby and wanting to be coached by a human...)
- hecanjog 1y ago
  It really depends. I think if there's a majority trend, it's just to have another job of any kind.

myko 1y ago

> and with cleaner code I use AI pretty extensively and encourage my folks to use it as well but I've yet to see this come directly from an LLM. With human effort after the fact, sure, but LLMs tend to write inscrutable messes when left to their own devices.