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Yes, that's what people said about him when he was speaking against doping in the late 90s/early 2000s too. Remember when he was forced to issue an apology to

Yes, that's what people said about him when he was speaking against doping in the late 90s/early 2000s too. Remember when he was forced to issue an apology to Lance Armstrong for calling out his relationship with Dr. Ferrari(doping connoisseur)?

stockresearcher 1y ago
It’s too bad LeMond sold his bike company to Trek. I have a small collection of American-made bikes. Every single one of the brands was acquired by Trek and then shut down a few years later… The LeMond is probably my favorite. Great geometry, great road feel, and a fantastic paint job. I put some new wheels on it this spring and it gives it such a rad look. Totally modern and retro at the same time. Such a bike would sell really well right now.
- le-mark 1y ago
  I worked in a shop that sold LeMond bikes back in the 90s. Iirc they were generally a chromolly lugged frame. At the time a lot of the high end bikes were the same. Are these not common nowadays?
  - stockresearcher 1y ago
    No idea about date ranges, but they were using Reynolds 853 and TT OX Platinum. Very high quality steel, and not something you’d get on anything mass market https://frugalaveragebicyclist.com/2022/05/15/guide-to-vintage-road-bike-steel-frame-tube-manufacturers-and-types/ https://frugalaveragebicyclist.com/2022/05/15/guide-to-vinta...
    - marklubi 1y ago
      That Reynolds 853... drool. When I raced mountain bikes a couple decades ago, that was what my hardtail was made of. Just 20.5 lbs for a steel frame bike was nuts at the time, and that bike was a rocket ship. Still have it. My son wanted to try it one day, his response was "that bike wants to go fast" Edit: I also had aluminum (too stiff) and titanium frames (too flexible, or floppy as I called it). The 853 was excellent
  - ubermonkey 1y ago
    100% no. I've been on the bench for about a year, but I spent the last 15 years as a pretty intense recreational cyclist. I was in the tier that you might describe as "the craziest you get without having a racing license." There were very few steel bikes on those rides -- say, less than 10-15%. Carbon is by far the most common material, followed by Ti for the more well-heeled folks. Most of the steel is "modern", but there are some vintage frames, too. I rode a boutique steel frame from Ritte for a long time, but went to a lovely carbon Giant about 2 years ago after the steel frame failed, which astonished me and everyone I knew. It's honestly better in every way -- quicker, lighter, more comfortable, etc. The vintage steel frames these groups are generally pretty high end holdovers. You leave some stuff behind by staying on a frame from the 80s or 90s, and some of those things really WILL make you slower vs. a modern hot-rod frame, but if you're strong enough you can make the trade. Weight's one, but so is gearing. Current normal for a road bike is 11 or 12 cogs in the rear, which means you have a VERY smooth progression as you accelerate. And older frame might not accommodate electronic shifting, either, which I'd be loathe to give up now. In non-flat places it might matter that the older frames won't allow for disc brake systems, but where I lived (Houston) that didn't matter.
    - stockresearcher 1y ago
      Sure, a modern drivetrain and brakes would be a necessity on a “LeMond reboot”. My new wheels have rim brakes - I would have added disc if I could. And the rear wheel/hub has room for an extra cog on the cassette. But I feel that once I wear everything out, I’m going to have to bite the bullet and get a new bike rather than fight against the lack of new equipment that fits old bikes :(
      - kjkjadksj 1y ago
        No you won’t. Shimano still makes new 7 speed groups even.
    - kjkjadksj 1y ago
      The only things an older frame won’t accommodate is electronic shifting and disk brakes. You can run 12 speed its the same cassette width as its always been since probably 7 speed. Stuff like external cables actually are better for you as someone who isn’t a pro cyclist since shifting is smoother without under handle wraps, cables last longer with less tension in the brifter. Easier to service yourself than running the cables in the stem or frame. 8 speed better too because the chain and cassettes will last forever vs thinner higher speed stuff. Gear range is probably the same just with more increments so you get away with fewer shifts on 8 speed and just use your legs to find the gear and cadence balance. People did big descents just fine on rim brakes for decades until they came out with disk and made it seem like an issue.
  - kjkjadksj 1y ago
    Most of the steel bikes you see sold are gaspipe. Lugged chromoly today you might have to dip into the remaining italian frame builders and they charge modern carbon prices for their steel.
    - stockresearcher 1y ago
      Reynolds 853 is still manufactured and available to bike makers, but TT OX Platinum was discontinued about 7 or 8 years ago.
- ubermonkey 1y ago
  A surprising number of the "classic steel" bikes I see on the enthusiast rides I go on were LeMonds. They're beloved, even in a world of advanced carbon, electronic-shifting marvels. I expect PART of that is the fact that where I lived until recently was pancake flat, so there was no real disadvantage to staying with rim braking, but still.
- rsingel 1y ago
  I had the Schwinn equivalent - a 2001 Peloton with 853 steel - basically the last good Schwinn ever made. That bike was so much fun and it loved climbing. Just sold it this summer. The geometry is just too tight for me now and couldn't support tires wider than a 28.
- AtlasBarfed 1y ago
  Lemond got a suspicious injection once in the 1989 Giro d'Italia...so his team may have been doping him without his knowledge if one wants to hold him on a pedestal. Lemond was beating a lot of superstars in the 1980s that were blood doping (Hinault was probably blood doping - that's where you freeze your blood in the offseason or between races and then superinfuse yourself for "big days" - it went to the wayside because EPO was so much more effective and convenient) which is suspicious as well. Lemond was also not exactly the best trainer compared to people like Lance Armstrong. He was teased by magazines for starting some TdFs overweight with a slight potbelly. Doping in cycling, heck doping in all sports has been around a long long time, well before Lemond. Stimulants and a wide array of other drugs have been used in top sports for a long time. So it gets very suspicious whenever someone is beating the top end performers at any point in the last 50 years. That said, I think he was pretty clean, or at least cleaner than the EPO guys that knocked him from the peloton.
jackmottatx 1y ago
He had first hand direct information about that stuff. Not true about motors. I believed him 100% about EPO but the motor stuff is silly. they check for motors for over a decade now.
- motorest 1y ago
  > I believed him 100% about EPO but the motor stuff is silly. they check for motors for over a decade now. If it's silly then why are they trying to counter it for over a decade?
  - pmontra 1y ago
    Because where there are no checks there are the cheaters. Example: there is no antidoping in amateur races. Amateurs dope themselves to win those races.
    - jackmottatx 1y ago
      [dead]
    - motorest 1y ago
      > Because where there are no checks there are the cheaters. Were there any instances where people cheated in spite of testing, and were undetected for years?
  - jackmottatx 1y ago
    [dead]
Yeul 1y ago
They were all doing doping. That stuff goes back to the 70s.
- broeng 1y ago
  And earlier than that, they jumped on the train.
  - parasense 1y ago
    And did amphetamines on trains...
- analog31 1y ago
  I've read that doping has been with cycling from the start. The early racers in the TdF took amphetamines to counteract their hangovers.
  - ben7799 1y ago
    The Tour de France was around for several generations before amphetamines became available. But otherwise that's probably correct, whatever they could find, they used.

stockresearcher 1y ago

It’s too bad LeMond sold his bike company to Trek. I have a small collection of American-made bikes. Every single one of the brands was acquired by Trek and then shut down a few years later… The LeMond is probably my favorite. Great geometry, great road feel, and a fantastic paint job. I put some new wheels on it this spring and it gives it such a rad look. Totally modern and retro at the same time. Such a bike would sell really well right now.

le-mark 1y ago
I worked in a shop that sold LeMond bikes back in the 90s. Iirc they were generally a chromolly lugged frame. At the time a lot of the high end bikes were the same. Are these not common nowadays?
- stockresearcher 1y ago
  No idea about date ranges, but they were using Reynolds 853 and TT OX Platinum. Very high quality steel, and not something you’d get on anything mass market https://frugalaveragebicyclist.com/2022/05/15/guide-to-vintage-road-bike-steel-frame-tube-manufacturers-and-types/ https://frugalaveragebicyclist.com/2022/05/15/guide-to-vinta...
  - marklubi 1y ago
    That Reynolds 853... drool. When I raced mountain bikes a couple decades ago, that was what my hardtail was made of. Just 20.5 lbs for a steel frame bike was nuts at the time, and that bike was a rocket ship. Still have it. My son wanted to try it one day, his response was "that bike wants to go fast" Edit: I also had aluminum (too stiff) and titanium frames (too flexible, or floppy as I called it). The 853 was excellent
- ubermonkey 1y ago
  100% no. I've been on the bench for about a year, but I spent the last 15 years as a pretty intense recreational cyclist. I was in the tier that you might describe as "the craziest you get without having a racing license." There were very few steel bikes on those rides -- say, less than 10-15%. Carbon is by far the most common material, followed by Ti for the more well-heeled folks. Most of the steel is "modern", but there are some vintage frames, too. I rode a boutique steel frame from Ritte for a long time, but went to a lovely carbon Giant about 2 years ago after the steel frame failed, which astonished me and everyone I knew. It's honestly better in every way -- quicker, lighter, more comfortable, etc. The vintage steel frames these groups are generally pretty high end holdovers. You leave some stuff behind by staying on a frame from the 80s or 90s, and some of those things really WILL make you slower vs. a modern hot-rod frame, but if you're strong enough you can make the trade. Weight's one, but so is gearing. Current normal for a road bike is 11 or 12 cogs in the rear, which means you have a VERY smooth progression as you accelerate. And older frame might not accommodate electronic shifting, either, which I'd be loathe to give up now. In non-flat places it might matter that the older frames won't allow for disc brake systems, but where I lived (Houston) that didn't matter.
  - stockresearcher 1y ago
    Sure, a modern drivetrain and brakes would be a necessity on a “LeMond reboot”. My new wheels have rim brakes - I would have added disc if I could. And the rear wheel/hub has room for an extra cog on the cassette. But I feel that once I wear everything out, I’m going to have to bite the bullet and get a new bike rather than fight against the lack of new equipment that fits old bikes :(
    - kjkjadksj 1y ago
      No you won’t. Shimano still makes new 7 speed groups even.
  - kjkjadksj 1y ago
    The only things an older frame won’t accommodate is electronic shifting and disk brakes. You can run 12 speed its the same cassette width as its always been since probably 7 speed. Stuff like external cables actually are better for you as someone who isn’t a pro cyclist since shifting is smoother without under handle wraps, cables last longer with less tension in the brifter. Easier to service yourself than running the cables in the stem or frame. 8 speed better too because the chain and cassettes will last forever vs thinner higher speed stuff. Gear range is probably the same just with more increments so you get away with fewer shifts on 8 speed and just use your legs to find the gear and cadence balance. People did big descents just fine on rim brakes for decades until they came out with disk and made it seem like an issue.
- kjkjadksj 1y ago
  Most of the steel bikes you see sold are gaspipe. Lugged chromoly today you might have to dip into the remaining italian frame builders and they charge modern carbon prices for their steel.
  - stockresearcher 1y ago
    Reynolds 853 is still manufactured and available to bike makers, but TT OX Platinum was discontinued about 7 or 8 years ago.
ubermonkey 1y ago
A surprising number of the "classic steel" bikes I see on the enthusiast rides I go on were LeMonds. They're beloved, even in a world of advanced carbon, electronic-shifting marvels. I expect PART of that is the fact that where I lived until recently was pancake flat, so there was no real disadvantage to staying with rim braking, but still.
rsingel 1y ago
I had the Schwinn equivalent - a 2001 Peloton with 853 steel - basically the last good Schwinn ever made. That bike was so much fun and it loved climbing. Just sold it this summer. The geometry is just too tight for me now and couldn't support tires wider than a 28.
AtlasBarfed 1y ago
Lemond got a suspicious injection once in the 1989 Giro d'Italia...so his team may have been doping him without his knowledge if one wants to hold him on a pedestal. Lemond was beating a lot of superstars in the 1980s that were blood doping (Hinault was probably blood doping - that's where you freeze your blood in the offseason or between races and then superinfuse yourself for "big days" - it went to the wayside because EPO was so much more effective and convenient) which is suspicious as well. Lemond was also not exactly the best trainer compared to people like Lance Armstrong. He was teased by magazines for starting some TdFs overweight with a slight potbelly. Doping in cycling, heck doping in all sports has been around a long long time, well before Lemond. Stimulants and a wide array of other drugs have been used in top sports for a long time. So it gets very suspicious whenever someone is beating the top end performers at any point in the last 50 years. That said, I think he was pretty clean, or at least cleaner than the EPO guys that knocked him from the peloton.

jackmottatx 1y ago

He had first hand direct information about that stuff. Not true about motors. I believed him 100% about EPO but the motor stuff is silly. they check for motors for over a decade now.

motorest 1y ago
> I believed him 100% about EPO but the motor stuff is silly. they check for motors for over a decade now. If it's silly then why are they trying to counter it for over a decade?
- pmontra 1y ago
  Because where there are no checks there are the cheaters. Example: there is no antidoping in amateur races. Amateurs dope themselves to win those races.
  - jackmottatx 1y ago
    [dead]
  - motorest 1y ago
    > Because where there are no checks there are the cheaters. Were there any instances where people cheated in spite of testing, and were undetected for years?
- jackmottatx 1y ago
  [dead]

Yeul 1y ago

They were all doing doping. That stuff goes back to the 70s.

broeng 1y ago
And earlier than that, they jumped on the train.
- parasense 1y ago
  And did amphetamines on trains...
analog31 1y ago
I've read that doping has been with cycling from the start. The early racers in the TdF took amphetamines to counteract their hangovers.
- ben7799 1y ago
  The Tour de France was around for several generations before amphetamines became available. But otherwise that's probably correct, whatever they could find, they used.