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There isnt. Its a crazy example of what is happening here. To use a real world example take this "EU deal" that Trump did. Everyone is talking like its already

There isnt. Its a crazy example of what is happening here. To use a real world example take this "EU deal" that Trump did. Everyone is talking like its already taken effect. But the reality is the EU just handshake agreed to this, but at the end of the day all of the member states have to rattify it. And if states dont or if there are arguements made the whole thing gets tossed. I just wish people would say that they dont understand how the EU works. At some point some Dutch mayor is going to say that the inernet should be free, and "tech journalists" are going to write articles talking about how all EU citizens will have Fibre cables connected to them at all times.

richrichardsson 1y ago
> I just wish people would say that they dont understand how the EU works. Just look at the Brexit vote for an example of how little people understand the EU and how it works.
inglor_cz 1y ago
You are spreading some serious disinformation about how the EU works. Once such EU-wide regulations are fully passed (incl. the EP), the countries have to implement them in their law. Sure, they can drag their feet, or there actually might be a real showdown, for example, if the German Constitutional Court says that this is against the Grundgesetz and that it does not recognize supremacy of EU law over itself / the German Constitution. If the same happens in Poland, there will be extra drama added. But at the same time, at least half of the EU, countries with negligible tech sector, will happily pass that legislation without any significant friction, because a) think of the children, b) monitoring opposition and dissent, yay!, c) we have to, because Brussels said so, d) the lawmakers know shit about encryption and tech and they will be exempt from monitoring anyway, so encryption is something that is only used by criminals and terrorists and if you have nothing to hide etc. etc. At which point you have the surveillance infrastructure installed and in operation across half the continent, and with elections changing governments, it will spread. Our main protection used to be that small countries like Slovenia or Malta don't have the weight to push Apple or Google to introduce deliberate holes in their software. If the European Commission joins the push, that is a completely different pressure.
pakitan 1y ago
You picked a really bad time to defend a "politicians will eventually do what is best for us" position, given that such a law just came into effect in UK. And I think it's you who don't understand how the EU works. It's the biggest countries that must agree to something. Then they coerce/convince the rest. At best, the smaller countries can put on some kind of resistance until they extract some minor exception. This isn't "some Dutch mayor proposes free Internet". This is a relentless onslaught on encryption and privacy. And it's already in effect in other countries where someone at sometime also said "nah, don't worry, they just messing with us, it's not gonna pass".
- emptysongglass 1y ago
  Sometimes I think the HN contingent just willfully buries its head in the sand on issues of the EU, because they prefer to think of the EU as some idealist version of whatever they've lost as leftists in the US. What this person is writing is correct. The reality of EU politics is anything but democratic. The EU is crowned by an unelected commission that does not serve the interests of the governed.
  - saubeidl 1y ago
    The EU commission is appointed by elected governments, with one level of indirection. It is thus as democratically legitimized as any ministerial role in any government, or as the US presidency. Please do not spread disinformation.
    - emptysongglass 1y ago
      It is not disinformation. The Commission is unelected by the people. I specifically called out that the Commission does not serve the interests of the governed. That is a correct statement. What's more the Commission is more than one person, unlike the US presidency.
      - saubeidl 1y ago
        Again, the commission is appointed by elected officials. Do you call ministers in your country unelected? Would you call the US president unelected? I agree the Comission doesn't serve the interests of the governed, but that's because the people keep voting against their own interests and vote in right-wing governments, which in turn appoints a right-wing commission, which then does the right-wing thing of selling out its people. It is not a structural EU fault, it is the electorate that's to blame.

richrichardsson 1y ago

> I just wish people would say that they dont understand how the EU works. Just look at the Brexit vote for an example of how little people understand the EU and how it works.

inglor_cz 1y ago

You are spreading some serious disinformation about how the EU works. Once such EU-wide regulations are fully passed (incl. the EP), the countries have to implement them in their law. Sure, they can drag their feet, or there actually might be a real showdown, for example, if the German Constitutional Court says that this is against the Grundgesetz and that it does not recognize supremacy of EU law over itself / the German Constitution. If the same happens in Poland, there will be extra drama added. But at the same time, at least half of the EU, countries with negligible tech sector, will happily pass that legislation without any significant friction, because a) think of the children, b) monitoring opposition and dissent, yay!, c) we have to, because Brussels said so, d) the lawmakers know shit about encryption and tech and they will be exempt from monitoring anyway, so encryption is something that is only used by criminals and terrorists and if you have nothing to hide etc. etc. At which point you have the surveillance infrastructure installed and in operation across half the continent, and with elections changing governments, it will spread. Our main protection used to be that small countries like Slovenia or Malta don't have the weight to push Apple or Google to introduce deliberate holes in their software. If the European Commission joins the push, that is a completely different pressure.

pakitan 1y ago

You picked a really bad time to defend a "politicians will eventually do what is best for us" position, given that such a law just came into effect in UK. And I think it's you who don't understand how the EU works. It's the biggest countries that must agree to something. Then they coerce/convince the rest. At best, the smaller countries can put on some kind of resistance until they extract some minor exception. This isn't "some Dutch mayor proposes free Internet". This is a relentless onslaught on encryption and privacy. And it's already in effect in other countries where someone at sometime also said "nah, don't worry, they just messing with us, it's not gonna pass".

emptysongglass 1y ago
Sometimes I think the HN contingent just willfully buries its head in the sand on issues of the EU, because they prefer to think of the EU as some idealist version of whatever they've lost as leftists in the US. What this person is writing is correct. The reality of EU politics is anything but democratic. The EU is crowned by an unelected commission that does not serve the interests of the governed.
- saubeidl 1y ago
  The EU commission is appointed by elected governments, with one level of indirection. It is thus as democratically legitimized as any ministerial role in any government, or as the US presidency. Please do not spread disinformation.
  - emptysongglass 1y ago
    It is not disinformation. The Commission is unelected by the people. I specifically called out that the Commission does not serve the interests of the governed. That is a correct statement. What's more the Commission is more than one person, unlike the US presidency.
    - saubeidl 1y ago
      Again, the commission is appointed by elected officials. Do you call ministers in your country unelected? Would you call the US president unelected? I agree the Comission doesn't serve the interests of the governed, but that's because the people keep voting against their own interests and vote in right-wing governments, which in turn appoints a right-wing commission, which then does the right-wing thing of selling out its people. It is not a structural EU fault, it is the electorate that's to blame.