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> Or just use Firefox because even using chromium is empowering Google to keep playing these games. This. People like to complain about problems, but I wonder

> Or just use Firefox because even using chromium is empowering Google to keep playing these games. This. People like to complain about problems, but I wonder why they don't invest half that energy in actually fixing the problems. > Maybe you have a problem with Firefox (...) I've started to notice there is a very vocal opposition of Firefox whose common trait is that they actually do not or cannot present any tangible argument against Firefox. They just shit talk about Firefox, and hand-wave their criticism with inane comments like "they lost the boat". Sometimes I wonder where that absurdity comes from.

figmert 1y ago
> they actually do not or cannot present any tangible argument against Firefox. They just shit talk about Firefox, and hand-wave their criticism with inane comments like "they lost the boat". Have you seen that Mozilla has basically become an ad agency?
- darkwater 1y ago
  So, like Google, the makers of Chrome?
- motorest 1y ago
  > Have you seen that Mozilla has basically become an ad agency? Even taking these comments at face value, this blend of arguments is pretty stupid given that you're making this sort of claims about Firefox when discussing not using Chrome.
  - figmert 1y ago
    To be clear, I do use Firefox and haven't even installed Chrome/Chromium for a long time. But given that Mozilla is inching closer and closer towards ad agency, it's only a matter of time that Firefox will open up the same issues that Chrome has. The argument of Firefox vs Chrome is not siloed and inherently includes the argument of what their respective developers do and don't do. If we didn't need to include them in the face of such an argument, there would be little reason to switch away Chrome.
- sswezey 1y ago
  Google _is_ an ad agency
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
encom 1y ago
I have plenty of arguments against Firefox, but engaging in browser holy wars is so tiresome. I used Firefox since before it was called Firefox up until v89 (I think) when I finally had enough. That's when they for the millionth time messed up the UI in new fanciful ways, and removed more features I relied upon daily. It's a pattern going back decades, and the usual tired old argument is, just install this addon to restore the functionality, or add/remove this to userchrome.css, or install whatever from some random Github link. The problem is I first have to spend time and energy finding these things, and then the authors have to keep supporting them in perpetuity. And often it's tiny stupid things like removing "show image" from the context menu, I now have to install an addon for, but it's a feature I use all the time, but their precious telemetry says only 10% (or whatever) of people use it, so it gets axed in the name of minimalism. Inevitably those 10% of users will whine about it on Bugzilla, and inevitably it will be WONTFIXed and comments disabled. I've seen this scenario play out SO MANY TIMES. I like the idea of Firefox. Not the execution. After ditching Firefox, I installed Vivaldi, and while it certainly isn't flawless, I can set up every aspect of it how I want, and in the four or so years I've used it - with a few minor exceptions I could revert with in-browser settings - it looks and works exactly how I set it up in 2021. So in summary, for me it was very much a paper-cuts thing, rather than any single major Mozilla catastrophe.
- motorest 1y ago
  > I have plenty of arguments against Firefox, but engaging in browser holy wars is so tiresome. I think you're trying to make up irrational excuses. If you feel the need to criticise something and be vocal about it, the very least that's expected from you is that you present your basis that sparked your vocal criticism of something. If you are very vocal to shit talk about something but cannot present any basis supporting your personal opinion or put together a coherent argument, that tells everything to know about what credit should be given to what you feel compelled to say. > I used Firefox since before it was called Firefox up until v89 (I think) when I finally had enough. That's when they for the millionth time messed up the UI in new fanciful ways, and removed more features I relied upon daily. Firefox's UI barely changed in over a decade. The biggest change they rolled out in the last decade was introducing and removing Pocket, and the sidebar and vertical tab support introduced last year. > It's a pattern going back decades, Point out exactly what you single out as what you feel represents the best example. So far you wrote a wall of text and mentioned absolutely nothing that supported such a visceral opinion. > So in summary, for me it was very much a paper-cuts thing (...) You mentioned no paper cut. You just wrote a wall of text about nothing. No wonder you shielded yourself behind "browser holy wars" nonsense.

figmert 1y ago

> they actually do not or cannot present any tangible argument against Firefox. They just shit talk about Firefox, and hand-wave their criticism with inane comments like "they lost the boat". Have you seen that Mozilla has basically become an ad agency?

darkwater 1y ago
So, like Google, the makers of Chrome?
motorest 1y ago
> Have you seen that Mozilla has basically become an ad agency? Even taking these comments at face value, this blend of arguments is pretty stupid given that you're making this sort of claims about Firefox when discussing not using Chrome.
- figmert 1y ago
  To be clear, I do use Firefox and haven't even installed Chrome/Chromium for a long time. But given that Mozilla is inching closer and closer towards ad agency, it's only a matter of time that Firefox will open up the same issues that Chrome has. The argument of Firefox vs Chrome is not siloed and inherently includes the argument of what their respective developers do and don't do. If we didn't need to include them in the face of such an argument, there would be little reason to switch away Chrome.
sswezey 1y ago
Google _is_ an ad agency
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

encom 1y ago

I have plenty of arguments against Firefox, but engaging in browser holy wars is so tiresome. I used Firefox since before it was called Firefox up until v89 (I think) when I finally had enough. That's when they for the millionth time messed up the UI in new fanciful ways, and removed more features I relied upon daily. It's a pattern going back decades, and the usual tired old argument is, just install this addon to restore the functionality, or add/remove this to userchrome.css, or install whatever from some random Github link. The problem is I first have to spend time and energy finding these things, and then the authors have to keep supporting them in perpetuity. And often it's tiny stupid things like removing "show image" from the context menu, I now have to install an addon for, but it's a feature I use all the time, but their precious telemetry says only 10% (or whatever) of people use it, so it gets axed in the name of minimalism. Inevitably those 10% of users will whine about it on Bugzilla, and inevitably it will be WONTFIXed and comments disabled. I've seen this scenario play out SO MANY TIMES. I like the idea of Firefox. Not the execution. After ditching Firefox, I installed Vivaldi, and while it certainly isn't flawless, I can set up every aspect of it how I want, and in the four or so years I've used it - with a few minor exceptions I could revert with in-browser settings - it looks and works exactly how I set it up in 2021. So in summary, for me it was very much a paper-cuts thing, rather than any single major Mozilla catastrophe.

motorest 1y ago
> I have plenty of arguments against Firefox, but engaging in browser holy wars is so tiresome. I think you're trying to make up irrational excuses. If you feel the need to criticise something and be vocal about it, the very least that's expected from you is that you present your basis that sparked your vocal criticism of something. If you are very vocal to shit talk about something but cannot present any basis supporting your personal opinion or put together a coherent argument, that tells everything to know about what credit should be given to what you feel compelled to say. > I used Firefox since before it was called Firefox up until v89 (I think) when I finally had enough. That's when they for the millionth time messed up the UI in new fanciful ways, and removed more features I relied upon daily. Firefox's UI barely changed in over a decade. The biggest change they rolled out in the last decade was introducing and removing Pocket, and the sidebar and vertical tab support introduced last year. > It's a pattern going back decades, Point out exactly what you single out as what you feel represents the best example. So far you wrote a wall of text and mentioned absolutely nothing that supported such a visceral opinion. > So in summary, for me it was very much a paper-cuts thing (...) You mentioned no paper cut. You just wrote a wall of text about nothing. No wonder you shielded yourself behind "browser holy wars" nonsense.