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Israel has been an apartheid state for decades. This has nothing to do with Hamas. Anyone who is "changing their mind" now, hasn't - it's merely no longer socia

Israel has been an apartheid state for decades. This has nothing to do with Hamas. Anyone who is "changing their mind" now, hasn't - it's merely no longer socially acceptable to support naked indiscriminate brutality.

Jensson 1y ago
> Israel has been an apartheid state for decades Around 20% of Israelis are Muslims and they have full rights and get to vote, so no its not an apartheid state.
- 4gotunameagain 1y ago
  If you talk to any Muslim that lives in Israel (which I have), you will realise that they only have full rights in theory. Arabs with Israeli passports are routinely searched and investigated by intelligence agencies, and in the occupied areas Arabs WITH Israeli passports are not allowed to visit certain areas (multiple sources online, including the recent Louis Theroux documentary). This is the very definition of an apartheid state.
  - tome 1y ago
    > in the occupied areas Arabs WITH Israeli passports are not allowed to visit certain areas No one with an Israeli passport is allowed to visit Area A of the West Bank, regardless of their ethnicity.
    - 4gotunameagain 1y ago
      Yeah. And? One case is an assertion of sovereignty (whether we agree or not), the other case is apartheid.
      - tome 1y ago
        I'm not sure what you mean. I'm saying that the reason that Arabs with Israeli passports are not allowed to enter certain areas of the West Bank is because no one with an Israeli passport is allowed to enter those areas.
        4gotunameagain 1y ago
        What I pointed out is that there are areas within Israel where Arabs with an Israeli passport cannot enter. Areas outside of Israeli control where Israelis are not allowed to go is irrelevant when discussing about whether Israel is an apartheid state or not.
        tome 1y ago
        > What I pointed out is that there are areas within Israel where Arabs with an Israeli passport cannot enter. Actually you said > in the occupied areas Arabs WITH Israeli passports are not allowed to visit certain areas But in any case, since you also said "multiple sources online" perhaps you can link one so we're talking about something concrete and not just vague insinuations.
        4gotunameagain 1y ago
        By occupied areas I did not mean Area A of the West Bank, I meant settlements considered "Israel". It is trivial to find more sources than the one I already mentioned, there is a very very long wikipedia article as a starting point. I'm afraid you do not care about seeing what is going on, you care about dismissing opposing opinions.
        tome 1y ago
        Well, I have found some sources and they say that Arabs with Israeli citizenship can live in Israeli settlements in the West Bank: https://old.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/comments/v8s88z/arab_israelis_in_the_west_bank/ https://old.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/comments/v8s88z/ara... https://www.quora.com/Why-can-t-Israeli-Arabs-live-in-Israeli-settlements-why-are-they-Jewish-only https://www.quora.com/Why-can-t-Israeli-Arabs-live-in-Israel...
- 0xbadcafebee 1y ago
  In 1961, South Africa defended its use of apartheid by using Israel as an example of acceptable apartheid state. In 2022 (and 2024), South Africa again called Israel an apartheid state. They're kind of the authority on it... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_apartheid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_apartheid If the distinction you're making is only that the apartheid is applied mostly in Gaza and the West Bank, I'd say that misses the forest for the trees.
scotty79 1y ago
How can it be apartheid state with 1/5th of its population being non-Jewish and having strong anti-discrimination laws? They don't count people living in Gaza and West-Bank who want and/or try to kill them as their own and why would they? What "being apartheid state" even means?
- breppp 1y ago
  if it can be an occupation with no troops on the ground, a genocide with no meaningful way to destroy a people, colonialism by the original inhabitants and not motivated by capitalism, it surely could be apartheid without racism and with equal rights words have no meaning, only emotion
- 0xbadcafebee 1y ago
  Israeli apartheid is a system of institutionalized segregation and discrimination in the Israeli-occupied Palestinian territories and to a lesser extent in Israel proper.[a] ("Israel proper" refers to the borders of Israel as recognized by the majority of the international community, which excludes East Jerusalem, the West Bank, the Golan Heights, and the Gaza Strip.) This system is characterized by near-total physical separation between the Palestinian and the Israeli settler population of the West Bank, as well as the judicial separation that governs both communities, which discriminates against the Palestinians in a wide range of ways. Israel also discriminates against Palestinian refugees in the diaspora and against its own Palestinian citizens.[2][3][4][5][6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_apartheid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_apartheid
  - scotty79 1y ago
    I see. So people who call it apartheid basically believe that places like Gaza are parts of Israel despite Israel having no administrative power there nor effective police presence. Let's skip those places for a moment. What are the signs of apartheid in Israel proper? I don't have access to the sources listed. Just one or two things off the top of your head would be a lot for me.
    - 1y ago

Jensson 1y ago

> Israel has been an apartheid state for decades Around 20% of Israelis are Muslims and they have full rights and get to vote, so no its not an apartheid state.

4gotunameagain 1y ago
If you talk to any Muslim that lives in Israel (which I have), you will realise that they only have full rights in theory. Arabs with Israeli passports are routinely searched and investigated by intelligence agencies, and in the occupied areas Arabs WITH Israeli passports are not allowed to visit certain areas (multiple sources online, including the recent Louis Theroux documentary). This is the very definition of an apartheid state.
- tome 1y ago
  > in the occupied areas Arabs WITH Israeli passports are not allowed to visit certain areas No one with an Israeli passport is allowed to visit Area A of the West Bank, regardless of their ethnicity.
  - 4gotunameagain 1y ago
    Yeah. And? One case is an assertion of sovereignty (whether we agree or not), the other case is apartheid.
    - tome 1y ago
      I'm not sure what you mean. I'm saying that the reason that Arabs with Israeli passports are not allowed to enter certain areas of the West Bank is because no one with an Israeli passport is allowed to enter those areas.
      - 4gotunameagain 1y ago
        What I pointed out is that there are areas within Israel where Arabs with an Israeli passport cannot enter. Areas outside of Israeli control where Israelis are not allowed to go is irrelevant when discussing about whether Israel is an apartheid state or not.
        tome 1y ago
        > What I pointed out is that there are areas within Israel where Arabs with an Israeli passport cannot enter. Actually you said > in the occupied areas Arabs WITH Israeli passports are not allowed to visit certain areas But in any case, since you also said "multiple sources online" perhaps you can link one so we're talking about something concrete and not just vague insinuations.
        4gotunameagain 1y ago
        By occupied areas I did not mean Area A of the West Bank, I meant settlements considered "Israel". It is trivial to find more sources than the one I already mentioned, there is a very very long wikipedia article as a starting point. I'm afraid you do not care about seeing what is going on, you care about dismissing opposing opinions.
        tome 1y ago
        Well, I have found some sources and they say that Arabs with Israeli citizenship can live in Israeli settlements in the West Bank: https://old.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/comments/v8s88z/arab_israelis_in_the_west_bank/ https://old.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/comments/v8s88z/ara... https://www.quora.com/Why-can-t-Israeli-Arabs-live-in-Israeli-settlements-why-are-they-Jewish-only https://www.quora.com/Why-can-t-Israeli-Arabs-live-in-Israel...
0xbadcafebee 1y ago
In 1961, South Africa defended its use of apartheid by using Israel as an example of acceptable apartheid state. In 2022 (and 2024), South Africa again called Israel an apartheid state. They're kind of the authority on it... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_apartheid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_apartheid If the distinction you're making is only that the apartheid is applied mostly in Gaza and the West Bank, I'd say that misses the forest for the trees.

scotty79 1y ago

How can it be apartheid state with 1/5th of its population being non-Jewish and having strong anti-discrimination laws? They don't count people living in Gaza and West-Bank who want and/or try to kill them as their own and why would they? What "being apartheid state" even means?

breppp 1y ago
if it can be an occupation with no troops on the ground, a genocide with no meaningful way to destroy a people, colonialism by the original inhabitants and not motivated by capitalism, it surely could be apartheid without racism and with equal rights words have no meaning, only emotion
0xbadcafebee 1y ago
Israeli apartheid is a system of institutionalized segregation and discrimination in the Israeli-occupied Palestinian territories and to a lesser extent in Israel proper.[a] ("Israel proper" refers to the borders of Israel as recognized by the majority of the international community, which excludes East Jerusalem, the West Bank, the Golan Heights, and the Gaza Strip.) This system is characterized by near-total physical separation between the Palestinian and the Israeli settler population of the West Bank, as well as the judicial separation that governs both communities, which discriminates against the Palestinians in a wide range of ways. Israel also discriminates against Palestinian refugees in the diaspora and against its own Palestinian citizens.[2][3][4][5][6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_apartheid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_apartheid
- scotty79 1y ago
  I see. So people who call it apartheid basically believe that places like Gaza are parts of Israel despite Israel having no administrative power there nor effective police presence. Let's skip those places for a moment. What are the signs of apartheid in Israel proper? I don't have access to the sources listed. Just one or two things off the top of your head would be a lot for me.
  - 1y ago