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> Hamas has publicly stated that more civilian deaths helps their cause The fact that Israel has no problem creating these civilian deaths is part of the probl

> Hamas has publicly stated that more civilian deaths helps their cause The fact that Israel has no problem creating these civilian deaths is part of the problem. If you claim "human shields" you lose all credibly when you shoot nonetheless. It genuinely horrifying that you accept "well they made us kill all those kids". This would be easy to see if you accepted the Palestinian people as, well, people. > Again, what's your solution people? Two states, stop holding a people in a perpetual refugee camp and you might be surprised and how much less they fight you. And, if you really have two states, then there's a framework for retaliation if it comes to that.

Jensson 1y ago
> Two states, stop holding a people in a perpetual refugee camp and you might be surprised and how much less they fight you. And, if you really have two states, then there's a framework for retaliation if it comes to that. This was Israel's solution, its the other side that keeps rejecting this solution and has been rejecting it for many generations now. So after 70 years of that it makes sense Israel are fed up with trying to ask for two state solution, because the other side will never agree that wont work, they have to solve it in another way.
- FireBeyond 1y ago
  > This was Israel's solution, its the other side that keeps rejecting this solution and has been rejecting it for many generations now. Arafat and the PLA/PLO, let's be clear, were responsible for many terrorist atrocities. But let's not forget, their softening, and efforts at the negotiation table, put the Israel far right in a tough spot. Questions were really starting to get awkward - "Arafat is negotiating and making concessions, so why isn't Israel?" That's when Netanyahu and his buddies decided that Israel needed to start supporting Hamas, because Hamas was more hardline than the PLO. And their rise would make it easy to deflect blame away from Israel for being unwilling to explore the peace process.
- splintercell 1y ago
  It's not even that. When Palestinians had widespread Arab support and their position was stronger, they kept on rejecting the two-state solution. Now, the situation is such that Israel can unilaterally get a one-state solution, so they're asking for a two-state solution.
robertoandred 1y ago
Gaza doesn't want two states. It's in their charter. They don't accept the Israeli people as, well, people.
- FireBeyond 1y ago
  Added by Hamas. When was the last time Gaza had an election?
  - robertoandred 1y ago
    The last time Gaza had an election they elected Hamas, because they don’t see Israelis as people.
    - adhamsalama 1y ago
      They do see them as occupiers, and occupiers are people. Israel on the other hand sees them as "animals" that need to be ethnically cleansed or killed. The words of their democratically elected officials, not mine. Satanyaho is the longest serving PM (+17 years). Says a lot about Israelis.
      - robertoandred 1y ago
        You can't tell the difference between innocent civilians and fighters who raped and abducted/killed people?
dismalaf 1y ago
> stop holding a people in a perpetual refugee camp and you might be surprised and how much less they fight you Israel completely pulled out of Gaza for nearly 20 years. Allowed them work permits in Israel, didn't control the border with Egypt, etc... Then October 7th happened...
- fahhem 1y ago
  Israel didn't pull out of Gaza, it simply moved its people to the border and continued its subjugation. They bombed Gaza's airport and implemented a land and sea blockade where they controlled everything that went in or out (to the point where they put the Palestinians on a diet with calorie counting at one point). That's not pulling out. The border with Egypt was controlled indirectly, Egypt is a puppet state of the US. For a moment it wasn't and suddenly they got a military coup and nobody stopped them in the name of democracy...
  - leptons 1y ago
    >They bombed Gaza's airport and implemented a land and sea blockade where they controlled everything that went in or out Israel blockades the ports and bombed the airport because missiles and weapons used to kill Israelis are shipped in at those places. These weapons in Gaza are not being used for defense. They are there to kill Israelis, period. Weapons still get in, and then shit like Oct 7th happens - again, not in defense of Gaza, it was purely out of hatred of Israelis. Palestinians used to strap bombs to children and blew them up just to kill a few more Jews. Now they collect them and use them as human shields when they launch rocket attacks against Israel. Yeah, the ports are blocked for good reason. Maybe Gazans could have tried diplomacy instead of terrorism, but they elected Hamas with a charter of exterminating Jews instead. I'm not sure how anyone could think that leads to prosperity - it leads directly to what's going on now.
    - fahhem 1y ago
      The West Bank tried diplomacy, the PA is Israel's puppet and doesn't stop the settlements and the violence of those settlers. Americans have died at the hands of that settler violence protected by the IDF and ignored by the PA. What has that gotten them? Turns out, there's no diplomacy with the terrorist regime of Israel

Jensson 1y ago

> Two states, stop holding a people in a perpetual refugee camp and you might be surprised and how much less they fight you. And, if you really have two states, then there's a framework for retaliation if it comes to that. This was Israel's solution, its the other side that keeps rejecting this solution and has been rejecting it for many generations now. So after 70 years of that it makes sense Israel are fed up with trying to ask for two state solution, because the other side will never agree that wont work, they have to solve it in another way.

FireBeyond 1y ago
> This was Israel's solution, its the other side that keeps rejecting this solution and has been rejecting it for many generations now. Arafat and the PLA/PLO, let's be clear, were responsible for many terrorist atrocities. But let's not forget, their softening, and efforts at the negotiation table, put the Israel far right in a tough spot. Questions were really starting to get awkward - "Arafat is negotiating and making concessions, so why isn't Israel?" That's when Netanyahu and his buddies decided that Israel needed to start supporting Hamas, because Hamas was more hardline than the PLO. And their rise would make it easy to deflect blame away from Israel for being unwilling to explore the peace process.
splintercell 1y ago
It's not even that. When Palestinians had widespread Arab support and their position was stronger, they kept on rejecting the two-state solution. Now, the situation is such that Israel can unilaterally get a one-state solution, so they're asking for a two-state solution.

robertoandred 1y ago

Gaza doesn't want two states. It's in their charter. They don't accept the Israeli people as, well, people.

FireBeyond 1y ago
Added by Hamas. When was the last time Gaza had an election?
- robertoandred 1y ago
  The last time Gaza had an election they elected Hamas, because they don’t see Israelis as people.
  - adhamsalama 1y ago
    They do see them as occupiers, and occupiers are people. Israel on the other hand sees them as "animals" that need to be ethnically cleansed or killed. The words of their democratically elected officials, not mine. Satanyaho is the longest serving PM (+17 years). Says a lot about Israelis.
    - robertoandred 1y ago
      You can't tell the difference between innocent civilians and fighters who raped and abducted/killed people?

dismalaf 1y ago

> stop holding a people in a perpetual refugee camp and you might be surprised and how much less they fight you Israel completely pulled out of Gaza for nearly 20 years. Allowed them work permits in Israel, didn't control the border with Egypt, etc... Then October 7th happened...

fahhem 1y ago
Israel didn't pull out of Gaza, it simply moved its people to the border and continued its subjugation. They bombed Gaza's airport and implemented a land and sea blockade where they controlled everything that went in or out (to the point where they put the Palestinians on a diet with calorie counting at one point). That's not pulling out. The border with Egypt was controlled indirectly, Egypt is a puppet state of the US. For a moment it wasn't and suddenly they got a military coup and nobody stopped them in the name of democracy...
- leptons 1y ago
  >They bombed Gaza's airport and implemented a land and sea blockade where they controlled everything that went in or out Israel blockades the ports and bombed the airport because missiles and weapons used to kill Israelis are shipped in at those places. These weapons in Gaza are not being used for defense. They are there to kill Israelis, period. Weapons still get in, and then shit like Oct 7th happens - again, not in defense of Gaza, it was purely out of hatred of Israelis. Palestinians used to strap bombs to children and blew them up just to kill a few more Jews. Now they collect them and use them as human shields when they launch rocket attacks against Israel. Yeah, the ports are blocked for good reason. Maybe Gazans could have tried diplomacy instead of terrorism, but they elected Hamas with a charter of exterminating Jews instead. I'm not sure how anyone could think that leads to prosperity - it leads directly to what's going on now.
  - fahhem 1y ago
    The West Bank tried diplomacy, the PA is Israel's puppet and doesn't stop the settlements and the violence of those settlers. Americans have died at the hands of that settler violence protected by the IDF and ignored by the PA. What has that gotten them? Turns out, there's no diplomacy with the terrorist regime of Israel