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> Anyone still need testimonies like these to be convinced that Israel You are operating until a false premise that Palestinians/Hamas are some sort of childre

> Anyone still need testimonies like these to be convinced that Israel You are operating until a false premise that Palestinians/Hamas are some sort of children and bear no responsibility for anything at all. Where in reality, the war could have been over in 5 minutes if they released the hostages at any time during the past 3 years. It still can be over in 5 minutes if they choose to do that. But no, they will put as many of their own people in harm's way as necessary to get to the world opinion to be what it is. And literally no one, including you, is questioning that. But please, do tell me that hostages have nothing to do with anything or Netanyahu bad or whatever else you can cook up. > while Soviet citizens starved As someone who grew up in the USSR, I can assure you - no one was starving. > what killed the Soviet Union was disillusion. People at all levels realized that a system that couldn't provide its people the basics didn't deserve to exist. That is such a simplistic view of what happened. I don't think that the system cared what its people thought at any time during the existence of the Soviet Union.

ImPostingOnHN 1y ago
> You are operating until a false premise that Palestinians/Hamas are some sort of children and bear no responsibility for anything at all. Where in reality, the war could have been over in 5 minutes if they released the hostages at any time during the past 3 years. It still can be over in 5 minutes if they choose to do that. But no, they will put as many of their own people in harm's way as necessary to get to the world opinion to be what it is. And literally no one, including you, is questioning that. Palestinians and Hamas are 2 different groups of people. Which 1 are you referring to when you say "they"? Only the Hamas can legally be punished as a result of Hamas's actions. Punishing Palestinians because you're mad at Hamas is a war crime.
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- starik36 1y ago
  Sure, technically. But to this day, majorities support Oct 7th attack, both in Gaza and West Bank. That's like saying in WW2, we can't attack Berlin because there are innocent Germans who don't support Nazis. So how exactly do you propose to fight Hamas in an urban environment when it's blending in to the population that largely supports them (and only put on a uniform during propaganda events like hostage handovers)?
  - ImPostingOnHN 1y ago
    > to this day, majorities support Oct 7th attack, both in Gaza and West Bank Likewise, to this day, majorities of israelis support the israeli ethnic cleansing of Palestine. > That's like saying in WW2, we can't attack Berlin because there are innocent Germans who don't support Nazis. There's a difference between collateral damage and the israeli ethnic cleansing of Palestine. That said, the intentional firebombing of German civilians was arguably a war crime, so you're arguing against your point here. Indeed, the geneva conventions are partially motivated by the atrocities that occurred during WWII, with the aim of making sure they happened "never again". > So how exactly do you propose to fight Hamas in an urban environment when it's blending in to the population that largely supports them That's not my problem, but ethnic cleansing is obviously an illegal and wrong way to go about it. Still though, an answer to your request can be found here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44718080 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44718080
    - starik36 1y ago
      > majorities of israelis support the israeli ethnic cleansing of Palestine That is simply nonsense. Provide a link to a poll stating that. You can't. > difference between collateral damage and the israeli ethnic cleansing of Palestine More nonsense. You are just throwing out words. There is no ethnic cleansing. Palestinians are still there - no one is kicking them out. In fact, their population increased. And since there is no ethnic cleansing, your point is moot. What is happening is a modern war, door to door fighting - with collateral damage. The situation is grim. > So how exactly do you propose to fight Hamas >> That's not my problem Of course, it isn't. You just like to throw big words and feel good about yourself, while providing zero solutions to anything.
DoodahMan 1y ago
> Where in reality, the war could have been over in 5 minutes if they released the hostages at any time during the past 3 years. This talking point is very-much dated now.. Israel has said that they will not stop until Hamas is "eliminated". Netanyahu also threw in another condition to end the war: implementation of Donald Trump's plan to relocate Gaza's civilians [0]. So now I guess it doesn't end until ethnic cleansing is complete? That's lovely. [0] https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-implementation-of-trumps-gaza-relocation-plan-is-condition-for-ending-war/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-implementation-of-tr...
- starik36 1y ago
  People will say all sorts of nonsense to detract from this one simple solution. And yet they won't do it. Because they don't really want the war to end. They want Israel to lose.
  - avoutos 1y ago
    Exactly. From 1950-67 Jordan occupied the West Bank and Egypt occupied the Gaza Strip from 1959-67. At no point during this time was there any desire on part of the Palestinians to establish a Palestinian state. The Palesinians don't want a state, they want no Israel. I could on and on with historical examples, but it doesn't seem many here are interested in that sort of thing.

ImPostingOnHN 1y ago

> You are operating until a false premise that Palestinians/Hamas are some sort of children and bear no responsibility for anything at all. Where in reality, the war could have been over in 5 minutes if they released the hostages at any time during the past 3 years. It still can be over in 5 minutes if they choose to do that. But no, they will put as many of their own people in harm's way as necessary to get to the world opinion to be what it is. And literally no one, including you, is questioning that. Palestinians and Hamas are 2 different groups of people. Which 1 are you referring to when you say "they"? Only the Hamas can legally be punished as a result of Hamas's actions. Punishing Palestinians because you're mad at Hamas is a war crime.

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starik36 1y ago
Sure, technically. But to this day, majorities support Oct 7th attack, both in Gaza and West Bank. That's like saying in WW2, we can't attack Berlin because there are innocent Germans who don't support Nazis. So how exactly do you propose to fight Hamas in an urban environment when it's blending in to the population that largely supports them (and only put on a uniform during propaganda events like hostage handovers)?
- ImPostingOnHN 1y ago
  > to this day, majorities support Oct 7th attack, both in Gaza and West Bank Likewise, to this day, majorities of israelis support the israeli ethnic cleansing of Palestine. > That's like saying in WW2, we can't attack Berlin because there are innocent Germans who don't support Nazis. There's a difference between collateral damage and the israeli ethnic cleansing of Palestine. That said, the intentional firebombing of German civilians was arguably a war crime, so you're arguing against your point here. Indeed, the geneva conventions are partially motivated by the atrocities that occurred during WWII, with the aim of making sure they happened "never again". > So how exactly do you propose to fight Hamas in an urban environment when it's blending in to the population that largely supports them That's not my problem, but ethnic cleansing is obviously an illegal and wrong way to go about it. Still though, an answer to your request can be found here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44718080 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44718080
  - starik36 1y ago
    > majorities of israelis support the israeli ethnic cleansing of Palestine That is simply nonsense. Provide a link to a poll stating that. You can't. > difference between collateral damage and the israeli ethnic cleansing of Palestine More nonsense. You are just throwing out words. There is no ethnic cleansing. Palestinians are still there - no one is kicking them out. In fact, their population increased. And since there is no ethnic cleansing, your point is moot. What is happening is a modern war, door to door fighting - with collateral damage. The situation is grim. > So how exactly do you propose to fight Hamas >> That's not my problem Of course, it isn't. You just like to throw big words and feel good about yourself, while providing zero solutions to anything.

DoodahMan 1y ago

> Where in reality, the war could have been over in 5 minutes if they released the hostages at any time during the past 3 years. This talking point is very-much dated now.. Israel has said that they will not stop until Hamas is "eliminated". Netanyahu also threw in another condition to end the war: implementation of Donald Trump's plan to relocate Gaza's civilians [0]. So now I guess it doesn't end until ethnic cleansing is complete? That's lovely. [0] https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-implementation-of-trumps-gaza-relocation-plan-is-condition-for-ending-war/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-implementation-of-tr...

starik36 1y ago
People will say all sorts of nonsense to detract from this one simple solution. And yet they won't do it. Because they don't really want the war to end. They want Israel to lose.
- avoutos 1y ago
  Exactly. From 1950-67 Jordan occupied the West Bank and Egypt occupied the Gaza Strip from 1959-67. At no point during this time was there any desire on part of the Palestinians to establish a Palestinian state. The Palesinians don't want a state, they want no Israel. I could on and on with historical examples, but it doesn't seem many here are interested in that sort of thing.