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Israel has sufficient control that they can decide whether or how much food enters Gaza, and they have substantial control over the means by which food is distr

by elihu 1y ago

Israel has sufficient control that they can decide whether or how much food enters Gaza, and they have substantial control over the means by which food is distributed. (Aid organizations apply to them for travel permits so that they don't get attacked by IDF forces.) That's the relevant thing here, not whether they have 100% control on the ground. Siege is permitted only so far as it doesn't leave civilians without food or vital supplies. Occupying powers may remove the civilian population to a safe place temporarily. I don't think "we asked them to leave and they didn't" is regarded as an acceptable middle ground. Starvation of civilians as a method of war was specifically one of the charges by the ICC against Netanyahu and Gallant. (That was based on things that happened earlier in the war.) Besides, for several months recently, Israel blocked all food and aid into Gaza. The civilians had absolutely nowhere to go. If similar war crimes happened in Mosul those should be prosecuted too.

actionfromafar 1y ago
It's very hard to believe YZF does not know these things. Gaza is looking more like Warzaw by the day.
- YZF 1y ago
  I don't know and neither do you. Here's some claimed footage of a Gaza market these days: https://youtube.com/shorts/vwG5NjDj780?si=nVoR5hayUykTKz_F https://youtube.com/shorts/vwG5NjDj780?si=nVoR5hayUykTKz_F EDIT: more recent images from Gaza: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-SinKRcVwQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-SinKRcVwQ There's a war and a siege. I'm sure it's a great place to be. The Warsaw Ghetto comparison is despicable. Jewish people in Warsaw weren't holding German hostages or fighting a war with the Germans. They didn't murder and kidnap German or Polish civilians. The situation in the Warsaw Ghetto was an order of magnitude worse than what Hamas is saying the situation in Gaza is. Hamas has a very clear option here, to surrender and release the hostages. Israel is now delivering a lot more aid into Gaza. The Jews in Warsaw were sent to death camps. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto#Treblinka_deportations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto#Treblinka_deport...
  - actionfromafar 1y ago
    Are you kidding me? I also have a video of a cat windsurfing, I'm sure it's in Gaza. The airdrops are totally ineffective as a method of distributing aid, but apparently pretty effective as whitewashing propaganda. Any sliver of relief allowed by the IDF is under growing international pressure. Gaza is becoming a death camp, no need to send anyone elsewhere.
YZF 1y ago
I agree Israel has control over aid entering Gaza. I also agree that civilians should not be starved. In recent weeks though Israel has allowed aid into Gaza but the UN has not been picking it up and distributing it. Israel brings it outside the area that Hamas controls and asks the UN to truck it in. Those trucks then get looted or the goods just sit there because the UN agencies refuse to pick it up. Some food recently had to be destroyed because it expired sitting on the platforms. Obviously Israeli soldiers can't truck the aid into Hamas controlled Gaza themselves. I'm pretty sure "we asked them to leave but they didn't" is actually sufficient. How else is the population going to move? https://casebook.icrc.org/a_to_z/glossary/siege https://casebook.icrc.org/a_to_z/glossary/siege Otherwise how exactly would a siege work? You're expecting the enemy to cooperate? Anyways, I don't think a siege is workable here even if legal, and we can see why. There has been political pressure in Israel to at the very least prevent Hamas from controlling the aid. It's true that Israel blocked aid for a few months. This was after the strip was flooded with aid during the previous ceasefire. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2vz02e7g8o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2vz02e7g8o "Gaza kitchens warn food will run out in days after two months of Israeli blockade" (will run out in days - May 2nd). So at least a few days after May 2nd we know there was still some food available. The GHF started distributing food on May 26th. I don't know for sure what is the food situation in Gaza at every given moment. In theory the IDF says they have been monitoring it. So it's their word vs. Hamas. We also had people killed sitting in a cafe at the end of June so presumably there were some ingredients for that cafe to be open and serving customers. That's very anecdotal. I'm sure there are pockets of poverty, hunger and more. If you have money or the right connections you're probably getting food. The fair distribution of food within Hamas controlled Gaza isn't something the IDF has control of. The UN has also refused to collaborate with the GHF and Hamas has been attacking the aid centers and the Palestinians that help deliver aid there. Yes, the setup is far from ideal, but Israel has a right to try and get Hamas out of the aid loop. At the very least there are other players here, not just Israel, to share some of the blame.

by elihu 1y ago

actionfromafar 1y ago

It's very hard to believe YZF does not know these things. Gaza is looking more like Warzaw by the day.

YZF 1y ago
I don't know and neither do you. Here's some claimed footage of a Gaza market these days: https://youtube.com/shorts/vwG5NjDj780?si=nVoR5hayUykTKz_F https://youtube.com/shorts/vwG5NjDj780?si=nVoR5hayUykTKz_F EDIT: more recent images from Gaza: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-SinKRcVwQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-SinKRcVwQ There's a war and a siege. I'm sure it's a great place to be. The Warsaw Ghetto comparison is despicable. Jewish people in Warsaw weren't holding German hostages or fighting a war with the Germans. They didn't murder and kidnap German or Polish civilians. The situation in the Warsaw Ghetto was an order of magnitude worse than what Hamas is saying the situation in Gaza is. Hamas has a very clear option here, to surrender and release the hostages. Israel is now delivering a lot more aid into Gaza. The Jews in Warsaw were sent to death camps. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto#Treblinka_deportations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto#Treblinka_deport...
- actionfromafar 1y ago
  Are you kidding me? I also have a video of a cat windsurfing, I'm sure it's in Gaza. The airdrops are totally ineffective as a method of distributing aid, but apparently pretty effective as whitewashing propaganda. Any sliver of relief allowed by the IDF is under growing international pressure. Gaza is becoming a death camp, no need to send anyone elsewhere.

YZF 1y ago

I agree Israel has control over aid entering Gaza. I also agree that civilians should not be starved. In recent weeks though Israel has allowed aid into Gaza but the UN has not been picking it up and distributing it. Israel brings it outside the area that Hamas controls and asks the UN to truck it in. Those trucks then get looted or the goods just sit there because the UN agencies refuse to pick it up. Some food recently had to be destroyed because it expired sitting on the platforms. Obviously Israeli soldiers can't truck the aid into Hamas controlled Gaza themselves. I'm pretty sure "we asked them to leave but they didn't" is actually sufficient. How else is the population going to move? https://casebook.icrc.org/a_to_z/glossary/siege https://casebook.icrc.org/a_to_z/glossary/siege Otherwise how exactly would a siege work? You're expecting the enemy to cooperate? Anyways, I don't think a siege is workable here even if legal, and we can see why. There has been political pressure in Israel to at the very least prevent Hamas from controlling the aid. It's true that Israel blocked aid for a few months. This was after the strip was flooded with aid during the previous ceasefire. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2vz02e7g8o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2vz02e7g8o "Gaza kitchens warn food will run out in days after two months of Israeli blockade" (will run out in days - May 2nd). So at least a few days after May 2nd we know there was still some food available. The GHF started distributing food on May 26th. I don't know for sure what is the food situation in Gaza at every given moment. In theory the IDF says they have been monitoring it. So it's their word vs. Hamas. We also had people killed sitting in a cafe at the end of June so presumably there were some ingredients for that cafe to be open and serving customers. That's very anecdotal. I'm sure there are pockets of poverty, hunger and more. If you have money or the right connections you're probably getting food. The fair distribution of food within Hamas controlled Gaza isn't something the IDF has control of. The UN has also refused to collaborate with the GHF and Hamas has been attacking the aid centers and the Palestinians that help deliver aid there. Yes, the setup is far from ideal, but Israel has a right to try and get Hamas out of the aid loop. At the very least there are other players here, not just Israel, to share some of the blame.