4 ms·

Israel's response was obvious as soon as the attack happened. "Oh, looks like they've got that excuse they've been wanting."

literatepeople 1y ago
It's hard to describe to people who don't have family there, but this exactly. The goal is similar to American "manifest destiny". They want to, through whatever means necessary, displace (at best) the existing Palestinian population and take their land.
- beepbopboopp 1y ago
  Please explain to me what you mean. From my perspective, they handed over control of the region and have had countless opportunities since the handoff to occupy the land permanently had they so chosen. Couldn't it just as easily be argued that they no longer trust sharing a border with them?
  - 2muchcoffeeman 1y ago
    I feel like it would have been harder to get this far without international support had the Oct 7th attack not happened. I don’t know about you, but I’d be a bit more lenient if you’re trying to rescue civilian hostages. I don’t know anything about the impetus for the Oct 7th attack was, but you have to wonder why.
    - beepbopboopp 1y ago
      Im not following this comment. Please say it again.
- flyinglizard 1y ago
  Israelis voted in a government 20 years ago just to pull out from Gaza and give them their autonomy (which Gazans used to swiftly vote in Hamas, and that was the single and last time they had elections since). Saying Israel was interested in that land is disingenuous.
  - Zacharias030 1y ago
    settling the west bank breaking international law while claiming otherwise strikes me as disingenuous.
    - BigJ1211 1y ago
      Israel definitely wants the West Bank (and the Golan Heights), it didn't demonstrate the same interest in Gaza. Which isn't that strange considering there's very little value in the land itself. They were content with the Palestinians keeping to themselves in that corner of the land. At least that's what it looked like between 2005 and 2023. That isn't to say they had no designs on it further in the future, they might have had plans to annex it after fully claiming the West Bank. (Or at least certain groups within Israel)
      - flyinglizard 1y ago
        If Israel, the state, had interest in the West Bank it'd have annexed it already. There is a group, admittedly growing as a result of the processes happening in the Israeli society, which is very interested in the West Bank. But it was never the official position of the state. West Bank should have went to the Palestinians following the Oslo accords, and it partly did, but that all came to a halt with the deadly suicide attacks led by Hamas on Israel. Another opportunity was in 2000 Camp David accords, but that too ended with the second Intifada. A third opportunity came in the form of the Israeli disengagement from Gaza. Had it been a success story - the Palestinians building their own little Singapore in there, as the world was willing to pour in infinite capital - it would have pushed forward another such a move in the West Bank. But alas it ended with Hamas swiftly coming to power, years of rocket attacks on Israel, then October 7th and the rest is history. I doubt the Israeli public will ever give the Palestinians anything, at this point; any time a concession was made, Israel found itself in a worse and worse security situation. The great Israeli-Palestinian peace attempt over the past three decades failed miserably. These populations simply will not coexist, for great many reasons - religious, cultural, historical, tribal, and external.
      - runarberg 1y ago
- HDThoreaun 1y ago
  Israel wants the west bank and golan heights. Gaza is worthless, no one wants it. Israel tried to pay egypt to take it and egypt refused.
FabHK 1y ago
Why did Israel unilaterally withdrew its military forces from Gaza and dismantled its settlements in 2005? It gave them what they wanted, and look what it got in return. Murderous terrorism.
- lazyasciiart 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - FabHK 1y ago
    The Gaza strip borders both Israel and Egypt.
    - lazyasciiart 1y ago
      Egypt operates their border by Israeli approval. Israel controls any imports to Gaza, and any people moving in or out, and has done so officially since 2007. Edit: https://www.npr.org/2023/11/07/1210897789/rafah-crossing-gaza-egypt-israel-hamas-war https://www.npr.org/2023/11/07/1210897789/rafah-crossing-gaz...
      - breppp 1y ago
        And you think Egypt cannot decide to operate the border without Israeli approval? It seems like only Israel has agency in the middle east, why do you think it is so?
        viccis 1y ago
        Because the US regime changes or bombs any country into the dirt who challenges it? Why do you think they targeted the US for 9/11? Because they "hated our freedoms"?
        breppp 1y ago
        It's very doubtful the US will bomb Egypt over that, it didn't even bomb Egypt when it was directly involved in wars with Israel. Currently the Egyptians are in violations of the peace agreements with Israel over stationing military forces in Sinai, yet no bombs are falling. Generally I think they targeted the US because of Islamist Ideology. Islamism links conquest and imperialism to a proof of the religious validity of Islam. Once the West has begun its control over Arab countries the idea in the 1920s has emerged where the reason why Islam lost its prominence is because they lost the "true" islam. Therefore the solution is to return to medieval Islam, similarly to fascism nostalgia to the Roman/German empires. In that context, even the fact that the United States exists as a cultural force and influences arab teens to wear jeans is a major threat. Don't be naive that it is all over Palestine, Islamism started prior to the existence of Israel.
Spooky23 1y ago
There’s a case that it was darker than that. The IDF is arguably the best army of its type in the world. Yet the level of incompetence demonstrated when Hamas took the hostages was beyond incompetence. A retired general hopped in his car and rounded up a bunch of troops to extract his daughter. No officers were present in the area. It seems weird that a military that had 3D mapping and monitoring of a region allowing it to detect and target concealed Hezbollah artillery in buildings somehow was caught flat footed. It’s weirder that there hasn’t been any commentary about this in an age where every decision made is analyzed to death.
- lazyasciiart 1y ago
  There has been some commentary. For instance reports of rising levels of intense military activity on the border, sent by IDF female spotter squads on the border for months, were ignored by command centers. This was explained as “chauvinism” - crippling incompetence if true. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/01/israels-female-spotters-are-free-now-their-families-want-to-know-why-warnings-were-ignored https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/01/israels-female...
- viccis 1y ago
  >It seems weird that a military that had 3D mapping and monitoring of a region allowing it to detect and target concealed Hezbollah artillery in buildings somehow was caught flat footed. It’s weirder that there hasn’t been any commentary about this in an age where every decision made is analyzed to death. Yeah. "Weird." Kinda like how it was weird that a music festival was moved to be next to a military base that was the target of an operation that one of the greatest signals intelligence powers in the world "didn't know about" over a couple of years of planning. Weird that the IDF moved into the crowd instead of evacuating the festival. Weird that there were photos of massive numbers of bombed out cars that were disposed of before any forensics could happen. Kinda weird that IDF copters and tanks opened fire indiscriminately (or, sometimes, targeting Israelis due to Hannibal doctrine). Really "weird" operation all around. Seems like it really didn't have to happen the way it did.

literatepeople 1y ago

It's hard to describe to people who don't have family there, but this exactly. The goal is similar to American "manifest destiny". They want to, through whatever means necessary, displace (at best) the existing Palestinian population and take their land.

beepbopboopp 1y ago
Please explain to me what you mean. From my perspective, they handed over control of the region and have had countless opportunities since the handoff to occupy the land permanently had they so chosen. Couldn't it just as easily be argued that they no longer trust sharing a border with them?
- 2muchcoffeeman 1y ago
  I feel like it would have been harder to get this far without international support had the Oct 7th attack not happened. I don’t know about you, but I’d be a bit more lenient if you’re trying to rescue civilian hostages. I don’t know anything about the impetus for the Oct 7th attack was, but you have to wonder why.
  - beepbopboopp 1y ago
    Im not following this comment. Please say it again.
flyinglizard 1y ago
Israelis voted in a government 20 years ago just to pull out from Gaza and give them their autonomy (which Gazans used to swiftly vote in Hamas, and that was the single and last time they had elections since). Saying Israel was interested in that land is disingenuous.
- Zacharias030 1y ago
  settling the west bank breaking international law while claiming otherwise strikes me as disingenuous.
  - BigJ1211 1y ago
    Israel definitely wants the West Bank (and the Golan Heights), it didn't demonstrate the same interest in Gaza. Which isn't that strange considering there's very little value in the land itself. They were content with the Palestinians keeping to themselves in that corner of the land. At least that's what it looked like between 2005 and 2023. That isn't to say they had no designs on it further in the future, they might have had plans to annex it after fully claiming the West Bank. (Or at least certain groups within Israel)
    - flyinglizard 1y ago
      If Israel, the state, had interest in the West Bank it'd have annexed it already. There is a group, admittedly growing as a result of the processes happening in the Israeli society, which is very interested in the West Bank. But it was never the official position of the state. West Bank should have went to the Palestinians following the Oslo accords, and it partly did, but that all came to a halt with the deadly suicide attacks led by Hamas on Israel. Another opportunity was in 2000 Camp David accords, but that too ended with the second Intifada. A third opportunity came in the form of the Israeli disengagement from Gaza. Had it been a success story - the Palestinians building their own little Singapore in there, as the world was willing to pour in infinite capital - it would have pushed forward another such a move in the West Bank. But alas it ended with Hamas swiftly coming to power, years of rocket attacks on Israel, then October 7th and the rest is history. I doubt the Israeli public will ever give the Palestinians anything, at this point; any time a concession was made, Israel found itself in a worse and worse security situation. The great Israeli-Palestinian peace attempt over the past three decades failed miserably. These populations simply will not coexist, for great many reasons - religious, cultural, historical, tribal, and external.
    - runarberg 1y ago
HDThoreaun 1y ago
Israel wants the west bank and golan heights. Gaza is worthless, no one wants it. Israel tried to pay egypt to take it and egypt refused.

FabHK 1y ago

Why did Israel unilaterally withdrew its military forces from Gaza and dismantled its settlements in 2005? It gave them what they wanted, and look what it got in return. Murderous terrorism.

lazyasciiart 1y ago
[flagged]
- FabHK 1y ago
  The Gaza strip borders both Israel and Egypt.
  - lazyasciiart 1y ago
    Egypt operates their border by Israeli approval. Israel controls any imports to Gaza, and any people moving in or out, and has done so officially since 2007. Edit: https://www.npr.org/2023/11/07/1210897789/rafah-crossing-gaza-egypt-israel-hamas-war https://www.npr.org/2023/11/07/1210897789/rafah-crossing-gaz...
    - breppp 1y ago
      And you think Egypt cannot decide to operate the border without Israeli approval? It seems like only Israel has agency in the middle east, why do you think it is so?
      - viccis 1y ago
        Because the US regime changes or bombs any country into the dirt who challenges it? Why do you think they targeted the US for 9/11? Because they "hated our freedoms"?
        breppp 1y ago
        It's very doubtful the US will bomb Egypt over that, it didn't even bomb Egypt when it was directly involved in wars with Israel. Currently the Egyptians are in violations of the peace agreements with Israel over stationing military forces in Sinai, yet no bombs are falling. Generally I think they targeted the US because of Islamist Ideology. Islamism links conquest and imperialism to a proof of the religious validity of Islam. Once the West has begun its control over Arab countries the idea in the 1920s has emerged where the reason why Islam lost its prominence is because they lost the "true" islam. Therefore the solution is to return to medieval Islam, similarly to fascism nostalgia to the Roman/German empires. In that context, even the fact that the United States exists as a cultural force and influences arab teens to wear jeans is a major threat. Don't be naive that it is all over Palestine, Islamism started prior to the existence of Israel.

Spooky23 1y ago

There’s a case that it was darker than that. The IDF is arguably the best army of its type in the world. Yet the level of incompetence demonstrated when Hamas took the hostages was beyond incompetence. A retired general hopped in his car and rounded up a bunch of troops to extract his daughter. No officers were present in the area. It seems weird that a military that had 3D mapping and monitoring of a region allowing it to detect and target concealed Hezbollah artillery in buildings somehow was caught flat footed. It’s weirder that there hasn’t been any commentary about this in an age where every decision made is analyzed to death.

lazyasciiart 1y ago
There has been some commentary. For instance reports of rising levels of intense military activity on the border, sent by IDF female spotter squads on the border for months, were ignored by command centers. This was explained as “chauvinism” - crippling incompetence if true. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/01/israels-female-spotters-are-free-now-their-families-want-to-know-why-warnings-were-ignored https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/01/israels-female...
viccis 1y ago
>It seems weird that a military that had 3D mapping and monitoring of a region allowing it to detect and target concealed Hezbollah artillery in buildings somehow was caught flat footed. It’s weirder that there hasn’t been any commentary about this in an age where every decision made is analyzed to death. Yeah. "Weird." Kinda like how it was weird that a music festival was moved to be next to a military base that was the target of an operation that one of the greatest signals intelligence powers in the world "didn't know about" over a couple of years of planning. Weird that the IDF moved into the crowd instead of evacuating the festival. Weird that there were photos of massive numbers of bombed out cars that were disposed of before any forensics could happen. Kinda weird that IDF copters and tanks opened fire indiscriminately (or, sometimes, targeting Israelis due to Hannibal doctrine). Really "weird" operation all around. Seems like it really didn't have to happen the way it did.