4 ms·

I think the thing that should have been a clear unambiguous sign (if nothing up to then were convincing enough) that Israel's intentions weren't just to defeat

by elihu 1y ago

I think the thing that should have been a clear unambiguous sign (if nothing up to then were convincing enough) that Israel's intentions weren't just to defeat Hamas but cause severe harm to the civilian population of Gaza was when they blocked all food and aid into Gaza for months. I mean, why would you do that unless you want people to die? Even the stated explanation that they wanted to deprive Hamas of the ability to fundraise by stealing food and selling it back didn't make sense. Food shortages would cause the market value of hoarded food to rise, thus helping Hamas. Flooding the region with food would collapse the prices and deprive them of a revenue stream.

Cyph0n 1y ago
The intention was clearly communicated from day 1. But Western governments willingly decided to provide diplomatic cover & military support - some to this very day - with the backing of the Western media apparatus.
- ainiriand 1y ago
  Not the spanish government at least, now we are horrible aparently.
  - Cyph0n 1y ago
    Yes, Spain, Ireland, and Belgium were/are outliers. I am generalizing because the vast majority are complicit. It is also much simpler to do this than qualify each and every statement by enumerating the list of good or bad countries :)
    - BergAndCo 1y ago
      [dead]
insane_dreamer 1y ago
"destroy Hamas" has become "kill everyone with Hamas sympathies" -- but you can be sure that every boy who can carry a gun, who has seen family members die, who is living the destruction and desolation, is itching for a chance to join the next version of Hamas (which may not be Hamas itself, but something else built on the same shouldering fires that burn when people are oppressed, bombed, and starved, repeatedly for generations. They're not destroying Hamas -- they're just creating a new one (if anyone survives).
mupuff1234 1y ago
The market value of hoarded food going up only helps Hamas if they are the one managing to do the hoarding - otherwise it actually works against Hamas (if there's another distributor)
- fahhem 1y ago
  Exactly. If Hamas is doing it, it's self-defeating. If Hamas isn't doing it then you're just starving people. Because the point is just starvation, nothing to do with Hamas. BTW, all orgs (other than the lyin' IDF) says Hamas wasn't stealing significant amounts of aid (nowhere near the 10% claimed). Therefore it's clear starvation was the goal, not targeting funding or Hamas at all.
  - mandmandam 1y ago
    Even the IDF now admits it had no evidence of Hamas systematically stealing aid [0]. Yet the talking point - which attempted to justify genocide and never had a shred of evidence - will linger for years. I still meet people who think Saddam did 9/11, or that Afghanistan was connected. I still meet many people who don't even know a third tower fell in NYC that day. When news media repeats a talking point that long, or ignores evidence that long, it makes a very deep impression on the type of person who takes things at face value a little too much. 0 - https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/26/world/middleeast/hamas-un-aid-theft.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/26/world/middleeast/hamas-un...
  - avoutos 1y ago
    How is it self-defeating? Hamas is able to continue fighting with the more aid they steal. By stealing aid they also increase the suffering in Gaza thus winning the propaganda war.

by elihu 1y ago

Cyph0n 1y ago

The intention was clearly communicated from day 1. But Western governments willingly decided to provide diplomatic cover & military support - some to this very day - with the backing of the Western media apparatus.

ainiriand 1y ago
Not the spanish government at least, now we are horrible aparently.
- Cyph0n 1y ago
  Yes, Spain, Ireland, and Belgium were/are outliers. I am generalizing because the vast majority are complicit. It is also much simpler to do this than qualify each and every statement by enumerating the list of good or bad countries :)
  - BergAndCo 1y ago
    [dead]

insane_dreamer 1y ago

"destroy Hamas" has become "kill everyone with Hamas sympathies" -- but you can be sure that every boy who can carry a gun, who has seen family members die, who is living the destruction and desolation, is itching for a chance to join the next version of Hamas (which may not be Hamas itself, but something else built on the same shouldering fires that burn when people are oppressed, bombed, and starved, repeatedly for generations. They're not destroying Hamas -- they're just creating a new one (if anyone survives).

mupuff1234 1y ago

The market value of hoarded food going up only helps Hamas if they are the one managing to do the hoarding - otherwise it actually works against Hamas (if there's another distributor)

fahhem 1y ago
Exactly. If Hamas is doing it, it's self-defeating. If Hamas isn't doing it then you're just starving people. Because the point is just starvation, nothing to do with Hamas. BTW, all orgs (other than the lyin' IDF) says Hamas wasn't stealing significant amounts of aid (nowhere near the 10% claimed). Therefore it's clear starvation was the goal, not targeting funding or Hamas at all.
- mandmandam 1y ago
  Even the IDF now admits it had no evidence of Hamas systematically stealing aid [0]. Yet the talking point - which attempted to justify genocide and never had a shred of evidence - will linger for years. I still meet people who think Saddam did 9/11, or that Afghanistan was connected. I still meet many people who don't even know a third tower fell in NYC that day. When news media repeats a talking point that long, or ignores evidence that long, it makes a very deep impression on the type of person who takes things at face value a little too much. 0 - https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/26/world/middleeast/hamas-un-aid-theft.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/26/world/middleeast/hamas-un...
- avoutos 1y ago
  How is it self-defeating? Hamas is able to continue fighting with the more aid they steal. By stealing aid they also increase the suffering in Gaza thus winning the propaganda war.