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»If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how cou

»If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?« David Ben-Gurion, First Prime Minister of Israel Come to your senses and end this tragedy, give the Palestinians their own sovereign state, and then hope that they can forgive what you have done to them!

thenaturalist 1y ago
[flagged]
slibhb 1y ago
Palestinians have been offered a state 5 times starting in 1937. They rejected each offer. They don't want a state of their own; they want to conquer Israel. I don't see a solution. Maybe establish a somewhat repressive non-democratic Palestinian state?
- danbruc 1y ago
  This is simply not true, there was never any offer with acceptable terms. I am not going to repeat this here, this has been discussed countless times and you can easily find this if you want to.
  - slibhb 1y ago
    All of the offers seem acceptable to me. In the first offer, the Jewish state was quite small. None of the offers were acceptable to Palestinians because they include a Jewish state. Virtually all Arabs want to fight a war against Israel and destroy it. They view that land as theirs. The only reason there haven't been more wars is due to repressive Arab governments that have been willing to compromise.
    - danbruc 1y ago
      This is nonsense, the Palestinians and Palestinian organizations - even including Hamas - have to varying degrees accepted or shown willingness to accept a Palestinian state that does not encompass all of Mandatory Palestine. Israel is unwilling to have a two state solution, they always desired all of Mandatory Palestine and saw any division plan only as stepping stone for further expansion in the future.
      - wslh 1y ago
        > ...even including Hamas That is not true. Trivial to check on Wikipedia [1] and go to factual information. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#Policies_towards_Israel_and_Palestine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#Policies_towards_Israel_...
        danbruc 1y ago
        »On 2 May 2017, Khaled Mashal, chief of the Hamas Political Bureau, presented a new Charter, in which Hamas accepted the establishment of a Palestinian state "on the basis of June 4, 1967" (West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem).«
        wslh 1y ago
        You cut the entire paragraph.
        danbruc 1y ago
        You mean the part where it says they did still not recognize the state of Israel or relinquish claims to all of Palestine? You overlooked the part in my comment where I said to varying degrees. Also to me that seems not too different from the position Israeli politicians had and some still have, we accept the partition plan but still desire to expand into all of Mandatory Palestine eventually.
      - beepbopboopp 1y ago
- mrs6969 1y ago
  no one really believes such stuff anymore. Israel really the invader according to UN and many other organization. see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_2334 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Counci... and many other examples of how israel really ignored the internatinal law, the agreements it signed etc.
  - 7402 1y ago
    Um. The UN approved the original 1947 Partition Plan, which called for a Jewish State and an Arab state. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_...
    - danbruc 1y ago
      The UN General Assembly does not make legally binding decisions, they express majority opinions. Only the Security Council can make legally binding decisions. There is also the question whether the UN General Assembly even has the legitimation to suggest the partitioning of some land against the will of its population. There was an attempt to decide on this but that did not get the necessary votes. And even the partition plan was only accepted because several countries where pressured or incentivized to vote for it.
joyeuse6701 1y ago
That cannot be. Hamas isn’t interested in a Palestinian state, they are interested in the destruction of Israel. Iran and all its proxies think this way. It is their raison d’etre. Giving them a state would not end the war.

thenaturalist 1y ago

[flagged]

slibhb 1y ago

Palestinians have been offered a state 5 times starting in 1937. They rejected each offer. They don't want a state of their own; they want to conquer Israel. I don't see a solution. Maybe establish a somewhat repressive non-democratic Palestinian state?

danbruc 1y ago
This is simply not true, there was never any offer with acceptable terms. I am not going to repeat this here, this has been discussed countless times and you can easily find this if you want to.
- slibhb 1y ago
  All of the offers seem acceptable to me. In the first offer, the Jewish state was quite small. None of the offers were acceptable to Palestinians because they include a Jewish state. Virtually all Arabs want to fight a war against Israel and destroy it. They view that land as theirs. The only reason there haven't been more wars is due to repressive Arab governments that have been willing to compromise.
  - danbruc 1y ago
    This is nonsense, the Palestinians and Palestinian organizations - even including Hamas - have to varying degrees accepted or shown willingness to accept a Palestinian state that does not encompass all of Mandatory Palestine. Israel is unwilling to have a two state solution, they always desired all of Mandatory Palestine and saw any division plan only as stepping stone for further expansion in the future.
    - wslh 1y ago
      > ...even including Hamas That is not true. Trivial to check on Wikipedia [1] and go to factual information. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#Policies_towards_Israel_and_Palestine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#Policies_towards_Israel_...
      - danbruc 1y ago
        »On 2 May 2017, Khaled Mashal, chief of the Hamas Political Bureau, presented a new Charter, in which Hamas accepted the establishment of a Palestinian state "on the basis of June 4, 1967" (West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem).«
        wslh 1y ago
        You cut the entire paragraph.
        danbruc 1y ago
        You mean the part where it says they did still not recognize the state of Israel or relinquish claims to all of Palestine? You overlooked the part in my comment where I said to varying degrees. Also to me that seems not too different from the position Israeli politicians had and some still have, we accept the partition plan but still desire to expand into all of Mandatory Palestine eventually.
    - beepbopboopp 1y ago
mrs6969 1y ago
no one really believes such stuff anymore. Israel really the invader according to UN and many other organization. see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_2334 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Counci... and many other examples of how israel really ignored the internatinal law, the agreements it signed etc.
- 7402 1y ago
  Um. The UN approved the original 1947 Partition Plan, which called for a Jewish State and an Arab state. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_...
  - danbruc 1y ago
    The UN General Assembly does not make legally binding decisions, they express majority opinions. Only the Security Council can make legally binding decisions. There is also the question whether the UN General Assembly even has the legitimation to suggest the partitioning of some land against the will of its population. There was an attempt to decide on this but that did not get the necessary votes. And even the partition plan was only accepted because several countries where pressured or incentivized to vote for it.

joyeuse6701 1y ago

That cannot be. Hamas isn’t interested in a Palestinian state, they are interested in the destruction of Israel. Iran and all its proxies think this way. It is their raison d’etre. Giving them a state would not end the war.