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IDF fired on World Central Kitchen workers April of 2024 so this, sadly, isn't surprising. At least more and more video is, finally, coming out vividly capturi

IDF fired on World Central Kitchen workers April of 2024 so this, sadly, isn't surprising. At least more and more video is, finally, coming out vividly capturing these atrocities.

lawlessone 1y ago
When they accidently shot those three hostages escaping that should have been the moment more people realized all this talk about acting on intelligence was just marketing.
- dralley 1y ago
  On the other hand - when Israel struck the parking lot of that hospital a couple of weeks ago everyone was so confident that the IDF was lying when they said that there was a command bunker just underneath the entrance of the hospital. Not only did that end up being completely true, but the IDF killed Muhammad Sinwar in that strike. https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/08/world/middleeast/gaza-hospital-tunnel.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/08/world/middleeast/gaza-hos...
  - bigyabai 1y ago
    That doesn't exonerate anything, though. It shows Israel's willingness to put innocent lives in harm's way to plug potential future threats before they form. Threats they are overwhelmingly capable of deterring during transit, urban warfare or border conflicts. The doctrinal violence against civilian infrastructure (Dahiya doctrine) and the deliberate homicide of hostages (Hannibal directive) are inexcusable no matter how many military brass it kills.
  - mandmandam 1y ago
    > As a condition for joining the controlled tour, The New York Times agreed not to ... publish geographic details > according to the Israeli military > There are no known entrances to the tunnel within the hospital itself > According to the World Health Organization, Israel has conducted at least 686 attacks on health facilities in Gaza since the start of the war, damaging at least 33 of Gaza’s 36 hospitals > In other tunnels discovered by the Israeli military, soldiers have used Palestinians as human shields, sending them on ahead to scour for traps. ... You read this article as proof vindicating the IDF's version of events? ... Huh. If anyone wants to see the full story for themselves they can read it at https://archive.ph/giBjP#selection-1185.0-1189.43 https://archive.ph/giBjP#selection-1185.0-1189.43
    - dralley 1y ago
      You can literally see both the tunnel and the hospital entrance in the picture NYT provides.
      - bigyabai 1y ago
        To echo the parent; it doesn't matter. It didn't matter 2 weeks ago when Israel killed 3 Catholics bombing a church. The IDF's doctrinal destruction of civilian infrastructure and attacks on hostages are illegal under international law. If the target was entrenched personnel, then leveling a hospital reflects absolutely miserable trigger discipline on the IDF and their officer's behalf. It's not WWI anymore, if we can't agree on international accountability then we learn nothing from the horrors of our mistakes.
        dralley 1y ago
        It literally does matter. International law literally makes this exact distinction. And the very article we're commenting on states as much. >Under the laws of war, a medical facility is considered a protected site that can be attacked only in very rare cases. If one side uses the site for military purposes, that may make it a legitimate target, but only if the risk to civilians is proportional to the military advantage created by the attack. If you want to argue it's illegal, you have to make an argument that it's not proportional vis-a-vis the colocated military infrastructure, because otherwise international law says it's fair play in both letter and spirit. If they were completely off-limits then everybody would co-locate their military and humanitarian infrastructure without much thought - and the end result of that game would be worse for everyone. That's why international law is the way it is. Civilian infrastructure cannot be allowed to be used as a shield for military infrastructure. On that point - you would have a difficult time making a legal argument that hitting the edge of the parking lot (deliberately avoiding a strike to the hospital itself, and without doing significant structural damage to the hospital) to kill the Hamas #1 (at that time) was not proportional. If you want to make that argument with some other strike (like the church one) then go ahead - I'm extremely open to the idea that the IDF is crossing the line with many of their strikes - but that's a different argument than falsely saying that any strike next to civilian infrastructure is a war crime by default.
  - NomDePlum 1y ago
    Holding up war crimes as a positive examples really just illustrated how far gone Israels actions have gone past any normal standard. There is also no independent verification so it's debatable what the actual facts are. The IDF have long ago lost any right to be believed without that.
  - petsfed 1y ago
    You understand that you just said "they're the monsters for using human shields, but not us for shooting through the human shields", right? Make no mistake, its 100% a war crime to use civilians as human shields. But that doesn't magically absolve the IDF of also committing a war crime. And if they can't meet their military objectives without committing war crimes, maybe that's a sign. In any case, bombing a hospital to kill a terrorist is a very efficient tactic if your goal is to create more terrorists. If you learn nothing else from the UK's administration of Mandatory Palestine, learn that.
    - aklein 1y ago
      Not a lawyer, but my understanding is civilian casualties are not unlawful (according to international law) when the target is legitimate (on the theory that it is otherwise impossible to legally fight a war with an enemy that hides behind its citizens). To be clear this is not to say war crimes are not also happening.
    - orthogonal-wren 1y ago
      Also the israeli military seems to be using "human shields" itself. https://edition.cnn.com/2024/10/24/middleeast/palestinians-human-shields-israel-military-gaza-intl https://edition.cnn.com/2024/10/24/middleeast/palestinians-h... https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/23/idf-investigates-soldier-tied-palestinian-man-to-vehicle-bonnet https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/23/idf-in...
- mandmandam 1y ago
  Hind Rajab being used as bait to murder aid workers was kind of a tell also. Or when they bombed all the hospitals [0], or targeted pediatricians and oncologists, and their families [1] for assassination. Or leaving preemie babies to rot and be eaten by wild dogs at Al Nasr [2]. Or when they dropped over 6 Hiroshimas worth of explosives [3] onto an area roughly equal to a 12 x 12 mile square, populated with over a million children - in Biden's term alone. There's a lot more. Suffice to say that anyone paying attention has known that the US, Israel, Germany, England and more have been propping up a genocide for quite some time now. 0 - https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/countries/opt/20241231-attacks-hospitals-gaza-en.pdf https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/countrie... 1 - https://abcnews.go.com/International/gaza-pediatrician-mother-loses-9-10-children-after/story?id=122140789 https://abcnews.go.com/International/gaza-pediatrician-mothe... 2 - https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/abandoned-babies-found-decomposing-gaza-hospital-evacuated-rcna127533 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/abandoned-babies-found-de... 3 - https://www.bradford.ac.uk/news/archive/2025/gaza-bombing-equivalent-to-six-hiroshimas-says-bradford-world-affairs-expert.php https://www.bradford.ac.uk/news/archive/2025/gaza-bombing-eq...
- dgan 1y ago
  that was definitely THE moment that shook my confidence in IDF's presumed professionalism; pretty unreal
vorpalhex 1y ago
And one of those WCK workers was in fact a rifle wielding Hamas member who had participated in Oct 7th.. as well as an actual bonafide WCK worker. Admittedly blowing up the entire van was probably wrong in retrospect.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > one of those WCK workers was in fact a rifle wielding Hamas member who had participated in Oct 7th Source?
- cypherpunks01 1y ago
  Oh wait, except that's not true. Retired Maj Gen Yoav Har-Even described how the IDF's drone operators mistook an aid worker carrying a bag for a gunman, and then targeted one of the World Central Kitchen vehicles with a missile. The IDF then described how two people escaped that vehicle and got into a second car, which was hit by another missile from a drone. The military confirmed that there were survivors from the second explosion, who managed to get into the third vehicle - which was then also hit by a missile. By the end, all the aid workers were dead. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68742572 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68742572 Agreed that bombing the 1st vehicle of aid workers was a mistake. Then bombing the 2nd vehicle was a mistake, and the 3rd vehicle bombing was also a mistake.
  - vorpalhex 1y ago
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-12-01/israel-claims-targets-terrorist-in-world-central-kitchen-strike/104669290 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-12-01/israel-claims-targets... In Dec 1 in 8 WCK workers were fired for Hamas ties https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/12/11/aid-group-fires-dozens-of-gazan-employees-identified-as-terrorist-operatives/ https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/12/11/aid-group-fires-doze... Even your link calls out that one of the vehicles that split from the convoy was carrying armed gunmen.
    - cypherpunks01 1y ago
      Sorry but there's zero point in providing justification for this. Even the IDF said "it was a mistake that followed a misidentification" and that it "it shouldn’t have happened" [1]. Everyone's in agreement on this point. [1] https://x.com/IDF/status/1775290147426152931 https://x.com/IDF/status/1775290147426152931
asdefghyk 1y ago
Need to be careful here ... apparently Hamas in control of convey .... ".... At the WCK Welcome Centre, locally-contracted security personnel got on and into the trucks and the convoy continued the journey to the warehouse. As the trucks moved away from the Welcome Centre, one locallycontracted security person on top of the trailer of the third truck fired his weapon into the air. This was clearly visible in the UAV video, observed by the UAV operator and assessed by the Brigade Fire Support Commander to be consistent with Hamas hijacking the aid convoy. During the aid convoy transit to the warehouse the Brigade Attack Cell contacted CLA with concerns there were armed individuals on the convoy. CLA attempted through various means to contact WCK, first directly to the convoy, then to international WCK contacts. CLA eventually made contact with the WCK Headquarters in the United States who, after multiple attempts, made text message contact via WhatsApp with a WCK member who had gone ahead of the convoy to the warehouse. They replied that the locally-contracted security personnel had ‘fake guns’. WCK Headquarters replied to CLA that they had made contact with WCK in Gaza and would address the gun issue when WCK completed the task. It was difficult to tie down the exact timing of this extended set of communications; however, they appear to have continued after the WCK vehicles had already been attacked, indicating a lack of awareness by CLA of real-time events. Once at the warehouse, the aid trucks entered and the WCK vehicles joined up and parked outside along with the locally-contracted security vehicle. At this point the UAV operator identified the original gunman dismounting from the truck and joining with another individual identified as a gunman. Over the next ten minutes approximately 15- 20 people, including two to four gunmen, moved around the escort vehicles. During this period, the gunmen were classified by the Brigade Fire Support Commander and Brigade Chief of Staff as Hamas. P .... https://www.dfat.gov.au/sites/default/files/special-advisers-public-report-israels-response-wck-strikes-august-2024.pdf https://www.dfat.gov.au/sites/default/files/special-advisers...
- Maxious 1y ago
  > The identification of the armed individuals on the convoy and near/in the WCK vehicles had not been done in a professional manner. The mindset involved in the decision making was wrong. > It was inferred a number of times that not only had the gunmen associated with the WCK aid convoy exhibited tactics similar to Hamas, but that in fact ‘they were Hamas’. > Head FFAM confirmed that only the video feed being used by the UAV operators was used to identify the gunmen as Hamas.

IDF fired on World Central Kitchen workers April of 2024 so this, sadly, isn't surprising. At least more and more video is, finally, coming out vividly capturing these atrocities.

lawlessone 1y ago

When they accidently shot those three hostages escaping that should have been the moment more people realized all this talk about acting on intelligence was just marketing.

dralley 1y ago
On the other hand - when Israel struck the parking lot of that hospital a couple of weeks ago everyone was so confident that the IDF was lying when they said that there was a command bunker just underneath the entrance of the hospital. Not only did that end up being completely true, but the IDF killed Muhammad Sinwar in that strike. https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/08/world/middleeast/gaza-hospital-tunnel.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/08/world/middleeast/gaza-hos...
- bigyabai 1y ago
  That doesn't exonerate anything, though. It shows Israel's willingness to put innocent lives in harm's way to plug potential future threats before they form. Threats they are overwhelmingly capable of deterring during transit, urban warfare or border conflicts. The doctrinal violence against civilian infrastructure (Dahiya doctrine) and the deliberate homicide of hostages (Hannibal directive) are inexcusable no matter how many military brass it kills.
- mandmandam 1y ago
  > As a condition for joining the controlled tour, The New York Times agreed not to ... publish geographic details > according to the Israeli military > There are no known entrances to the tunnel within the hospital itself > According to the World Health Organization, Israel has conducted at least 686 attacks on health facilities in Gaza since the start of the war, damaging at least 33 of Gaza’s 36 hospitals > In other tunnels discovered by the Israeli military, soldiers have used Palestinians as human shields, sending them on ahead to scour for traps. ... You read this article as proof vindicating the IDF's version of events? ... Huh. If anyone wants to see the full story for themselves they can read it at https://archive.ph/giBjP#selection-1185.0-1189.43 https://archive.ph/giBjP#selection-1185.0-1189.43
  - dralley 1y ago
    You can literally see both the tunnel and the hospital entrance in the picture NYT provides.
    - bigyabai 1y ago
      To echo the parent; it doesn't matter. It didn't matter 2 weeks ago when Israel killed 3 Catholics bombing a church. The IDF's doctrinal destruction of civilian infrastructure and attacks on hostages are illegal under international law. If the target was entrenched personnel, then leveling a hospital reflects absolutely miserable trigger discipline on the IDF and their officer's behalf. It's not WWI anymore, if we can't agree on international accountability then we learn nothing from the horrors of our mistakes.
      - dralley 1y ago
        It literally does matter. International law literally makes this exact distinction. And the very article we're commenting on states as much. >Under the laws of war, a medical facility is considered a protected site that can be attacked only in very rare cases. If one side uses the site for military purposes, that may make it a legitimate target, but only if the risk to civilians is proportional to the military advantage created by the attack. If you want to argue it's illegal, you have to make an argument that it's not proportional vis-a-vis the colocated military infrastructure, because otherwise international law says it's fair play in both letter and spirit. If they were completely off-limits then everybody would co-locate their military and humanitarian infrastructure without much thought - and the end result of that game would be worse for everyone. That's why international law is the way it is. Civilian infrastructure cannot be allowed to be used as a shield for military infrastructure. On that point - you would have a difficult time making a legal argument that hitting the edge of the parking lot (deliberately avoiding a strike to the hospital itself, and without doing significant structural damage to the hospital) to kill the Hamas #1 (at that time) was not proportional. If you want to make that argument with some other strike (like the church one) then go ahead - I'm extremely open to the idea that the IDF is crossing the line with many of their strikes - but that's a different argument than falsely saying that any strike next to civilian infrastructure is a war crime by default.
- NomDePlum 1y ago
  Holding up war crimes as a positive examples really just illustrated how far gone Israels actions have gone past any normal standard. There is also no independent verification so it's debatable what the actual facts are. The IDF have long ago lost any right to be believed without that.
- petsfed 1y ago
  You understand that you just said "they're the monsters for using human shields, but not us for shooting through the human shields", right? Make no mistake, its 100% a war crime to use civilians as human shields. But that doesn't magically absolve the IDF of also committing a war crime. And if they can't meet their military objectives without committing war crimes, maybe that's a sign. In any case, bombing a hospital to kill a terrorist is a very efficient tactic if your goal is to create more terrorists. If you learn nothing else from the UK's administration of Mandatory Palestine, learn that.
  - aklein 1y ago
    Not a lawyer, but my understanding is civilian casualties are not unlawful (according to international law) when the target is legitimate (on the theory that it is otherwise impossible to legally fight a war with an enemy that hides behind its citizens). To be clear this is not to say war crimes are not also happening.
  - orthogonal-wren 1y ago
    Also the israeli military seems to be using "human shields" itself. https://edition.cnn.com/2024/10/24/middleeast/palestinians-human-shields-israel-military-gaza-intl https://edition.cnn.com/2024/10/24/middleeast/palestinians-h... https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/23/idf-investigates-soldier-tied-palestinian-man-to-vehicle-bonnet https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/23/idf-in...
mandmandam 1y ago
Hind Rajab being used as bait to murder aid workers was kind of a tell also. Or when they bombed all the hospitals [0], or targeted pediatricians and oncologists, and their families [1] for assassination. Or leaving preemie babies to rot and be eaten by wild dogs at Al Nasr [2]. Or when they dropped over 6 Hiroshimas worth of explosives [3] onto an area roughly equal to a 12 x 12 mile square, populated with over a million children - in Biden's term alone. There's a lot more. Suffice to say that anyone paying attention has known that the US, Israel, Germany, England and more have been propping up a genocide for quite some time now. 0 - https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/countries/opt/20241231-attacks-hospitals-gaza-en.pdf https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/countrie... 1 - https://abcnews.go.com/International/gaza-pediatrician-mother-loses-9-10-children-after/story?id=122140789 https://abcnews.go.com/International/gaza-pediatrician-mothe... 2 - https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/abandoned-babies-found-decomposing-gaza-hospital-evacuated-rcna127533 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/abandoned-babies-found-de... 3 - https://www.bradford.ac.uk/news/archive/2025/gaza-bombing-equivalent-to-six-hiroshimas-says-bradford-world-affairs-expert.php https://www.bradford.ac.uk/news/archive/2025/gaza-bombing-eq...
dgan 1y ago
that was definitely THE moment that shook my confidence in IDF's presumed professionalism; pretty unreal

vorpalhex 1y ago

And one of those WCK workers was in fact a rifle wielding Hamas member who had participated in Oct 7th.. as well as an actual bonafide WCK worker. Admittedly blowing up the entire van was probably wrong in retrospect.

JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> one of those WCK workers was in fact a rifle wielding Hamas member who had participated in Oct 7th Source?
cypherpunks01 1y ago
Oh wait, except that's not true. Retired Maj Gen Yoav Har-Even described how the IDF's drone operators mistook an aid worker carrying a bag for a gunman, and then targeted one of the World Central Kitchen vehicles with a missile. The IDF then described how two people escaped that vehicle and got into a second car, which was hit by another missile from a drone. The military confirmed that there were survivors from the second explosion, who managed to get into the third vehicle - which was then also hit by a missile. By the end, all the aid workers were dead. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68742572 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68742572 Agreed that bombing the 1st vehicle of aid workers was a mistake. Then bombing the 2nd vehicle was a mistake, and the 3rd vehicle bombing was also a mistake.
- vorpalhex 1y ago
  https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-12-01/israel-claims-targets-terrorist-in-world-central-kitchen-strike/104669290 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-12-01/israel-claims-targets... In Dec 1 in 8 WCK workers were fired for Hamas ties https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/12/11/aid-group-fires-dozens-of-gazan-employees-identified-as-terrorist-operatives/ https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/12/11/aid-group-fires-doze... Even your link calls out that one of the vehicles that split from the convoy was carrying armed gunmen.
  - cypherpunks01 1y ago
    Sorry but there's zero point in providing justification for this. Even the IDF said "it was a mistake that followed a misidentification" and that it "it shouldn’t have happened" [1]. Everyone's in agreement on this point. [1] https://x.com/IDF/status/1775290147426152931 https://x.com/IDF/status/1775290147426152931

asdefghyk 1y ago

Need to be careful here ... apparently Hamas in control of convey .... ".... At the WCK Welcome Centre, locally-contracted security personnel got on and into the trucks and the convoy continued the journey to the warehouse. As the trucks moved away from the Welcome Centre, one locallycontracted security person on top of the trailer of the third truck fired his weapon into the air. This was clearly visible in the UAV video, observed by the UAV operator and assessed by the Brigade Fire Support Commander to be consistent with Hamas hijacking the aid convoy. During the aid convoy transit to the warehouse the Brigade Attack Cell contacted CLA with concerns there were armed individuals on the convoy. CLA attempted through various means to contact WCK, first directly to the convoy, then to international WCK contacts. CLA eventually made contact with the WCK Headquarters in the United States who, after multiple attempts, made text message contact via WhatsApp with a WCK member who had gone ahead of the convoy to the warehouse. They replied that the locally-contracted security personnel had ‘fake guns’. WCK Headquarters replied to CLA that they had made contact with WCK in Gaza and would address the gun issue when WCK completed the task. It was difficult to tie down the exact timing of this extended set of communications; however, they appear to have continued after the WCK vehicles had already been attacked, indicating a lack of awareness by CLA of real-time events. Once at the warehouse, the aid trucks entered and the WCK vehicles joined up and parked outside along with the locally-contracted security vehicle. At this point the UAV operator identified the original gunman dismounting from the truck and joining with another individual identified as a gunman. Over the next ten minutes approximately 15- 20 people, including two to four gunmen, moved around the escort vehicles. During this period, the gunmen were classified by the Brigade Fire Support Commander and Brigade Chief of Staff as Hamas. P .... https://www.dfat.gov.au/sites/default/files/special-advisers-public-report-israels-response-wck-strikes-august-2024.pdf https://www.dfat.gov.au/sites/default/files/special-advisers...

Maxious 1y ago
> The identification of the armed individuals on the convoy and near/in the WCK vehicles had not been done in a professional manner. The mindset involved in the decision making was wrong. > It was inferred a number of times that not only had the gunmen associated with the WCK aid convoy exhibited tactics similar to Hamas, but that in fact ‘they were Hamas’. > Head FFAM confirmed that only the video feed being used by the UAV operators was used to identify the gunmen as Hamas.