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Im counting innocent victims only. The holodomor and mao great leap are the two biggest mass murder in history and surely would put communism As something as aw

Im counting innocent victims only. The holodomor and mao great leap are the two biggest mass murder in history and surely would put communism As something as awful as the worst of the right wing did. There is a reason the movement is banned in many countries and a secular country like turkey had to push back islam Into schools To fight this evil ideology

aspenmayer 1y ago
What are your total counts, by regime and year if possible?
- retinaros 1y ago
  Per gpt but it is in this range (could even look at some historians saying holodomor was much more than this) Estimated deaths under communist regimes (20th century): • USSR: 20+ million (Stalin-era purges, gulags, Holodomor, etc.) • China (Mao): 40–70 million (Great Leap Forward, Cultural Revolution) • Cambodia (Khmer Rouge): 1.7–2 million (out of 8 million population) • Others (Eastern Europe, North Korea, etc.): several million more Estimated deaths under far-right regimes: • Nazi Germany: 17+ million (including 6 million Jews in the Holocaust, and millions more civilians and soldiers) • Fascist Italy, Francoist Spain, and others: in the hundreds of thousands to millions, depending on interpretation.
  - aspenmayer 1y ago
    Those numbers seem somewhat/mostly accurate. I'm somewhat concerned about issues raised on this page and specifically this section, but I won't re-litigate those issues here and now, as I believe you are probably aware of them and I don't think that they are especially relevant to your points, but they are relevant to why people mention these numbers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communist_regimes#Criticism_of_estimates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communist_... I am wondering if you've come across the following work before? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Ophuls#Leviathan_or_oblivion?,_1973 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Ophuls#Leviathan_or_ob... > In his contribution, "Leviathan or Oblivion?", Ophuls wrote on the political and economical implications of environmental problems. His main argument was that "because of the tragedy of the commons, environmental problems cannot be solved through cooperation...and the rationale for government with major coercive powers is overwhelming." According to Ophuls "reforming a corrupt people is a Herculean task," which only leaves us with the choice of becoming a leviathan or oblivion. > Eckersley (1992) argued that, "...although Ophuls has since moderated his position by placing a greater emphasis on the need for self restraint than on the need for external coercion, he continues to maintain that the latter must be resorted to if calls for the former are unsuccessful." I'm concerned that we're on a path that leads to Leviathan or oblivion myself, and I think every world government is morphing into its most controlling form accepted by its governing bodies and local bodies public, but they aren't even paying lip service to tell us it's for our own good most of the time, it's just naked will to power. Capitalism with Chinese characteristics doesn't really give up much to compete with republics, democratic or otherwise. Democracies have to cede a lot of moral high ground to get to the same levers of control that communism seems to hand to the leaders of one-party states. This future has a new electric car smell, like a code smell.

aspenmayer 1y ago

What are your total counts, by regime and year if possible?

retinaros 1y ago
Per gpt but it is in this range (could even look at some historians saying holodomor was much more than this) Estimated deaths under communist regimes (20th century): • USSR: 20+ million (Stalin-era purges, gulags, Holodomor, etc.) • China (Mao): 40–70 million (Great Leap Forward, Cultural Revolution) • Cambodia (Khmer Rouge): 1.7–2 million (out of 8 million population) • Others (Eastern Europe, North Korea, etc.): several million more Estimated deaths under far-right regimes: • Nazi Germany: 17+ million (including 6 million Jews in the Holocaust, and millions more civilians and soldiers) • Fascist Italy, Francoist Spain, and others: in the hundreds of thousands to millions, depending on interpretation.
- aspenmayer 1y ago
  Those numbers seem somewhat/mostly accurate. I'm somewhat concerned about issues raised on this page and specifically this section, but I won't re-litigate those issues here and now, as I believe you are probably aware of them and I don't think that they are especially relevant to your points, but they are relevant to why people mention these numbers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communist_regimes#Criticism_of_estimates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communist_... I am wondering if you've come across the following work before? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Ophuls#Leviathan_or_oblivion?,_1973 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Ophuls#Leviathan_or_ob... > In his contribution, "Leviathan or Oblivion?", Ophuls wrote on the political and economical implications of environmental problems. His main argument was that "because of the tragedy of the commons, environmental problems cannot be solved through cooperation...and the rationale for government with major coercive powers is overwhelming." According to Ophuls "reforming a corrupt people is a Herculean task," which only leaves us with the choice of becoming a leviathan or oblivion. > Eckersley (1992) argued that, "...although Ophuls has since moderated his position by placing a greater emphasis on the need for self restraint than on the need for external coercion, he continues to maintain that the latter must be resorted to if calls for the former are unsuccessful." I'm concerned that we're on a path that leads to Leviathan or oblivion myself, and I think every world government is morphing into its most controlling form accepted by its governing bodies and local bodies public, but they aren't even paying lip service to tell us it's for our own good most of the time, it's just naked will to power. Capitalism with Chinese characteristics doesn't really give up much to compete with republics, democratic or otherwise. Democracies have to cede a lot of moral high ground to get to the same levers of control that communism seems to hand to the leaders of one-party states. This future has a new electric car smell, like a code smell.