6 ms·

Americans ought to adopt the Canadian Interac system.

Eric_WVGG 1y ago
I hadn't heard of Interac before but it looks perfect. It’s outrageous that private duopolies control > 95% of transactions in the country.
- throawaywpg 1y ago
  in Canada im pretty sure 95% of the population doesn't know Interac is Canadian only or different from debit in any way.
dmitrygr 1y ago
Perhaps Canada should hang its head in shame and stay humbly quiet on the topic of de-banking https://www.newsweek.com/banks-have-begun-freezing-accounts-linked-trucker-protest-1680649 https://www.newsweek.com/banks-have-begun-freezing-accounts-...
- dleslie 1y ago
  Nothing shameful about attempting to use temporary, non-violent means to end the occupation of the nations' capital, and the blockage of border crossings, when the occupying group has produced a MOU that calls for the dissolution of Government and voluntary removal of all bureaucrats and Senators who disagree with them, under threat of the Governor General refusing to allow Parliament to sit again.
  - dmitrygr 1y ago
    Here in USA we have a constitutionally-called-out inalienable right to petition (yell at gvmnt critters, words to be chosen for occasion) and assemble (do so in groups, arbitrarily large). Take a lesson.
throawaywpg 1y ago
as a Canadian its bizarre that the USA of all places is behind us in card-payment technology. I went to LA in 2016 and they had never heard of a chip in a credit card, only swipe.
- toast0 1y ago
  That's just fallout from the US's first mover advantage.
- Insanity 1y ago
  As a European living in Canada, Canadian banking is already lagging behind on the EU banking I had. Paying online with Debit Cards is possible (at least in Belgium), alongside 2FA, not just entering 3 digits on the back of a card. And when dealing with RBC, their mobile app is.. not great.
- bluGill 1y ago
  Chip vs swipe is meaningless to people. They both work. The us had good protection for swipe fraud so nobody cares. The EU went to chip+pin because historically their consumer laws were inferior.
  - throawaywpg 1y ago
    chips last longer!
barelysapient 1y ago
The Canadian government unbanked protestors they were unhappy with. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/22/world/americas/canada-protest-finances.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/22/world/americas/canada-pro... I think Americans are better off with annoying blocks on porn than the alternative.
- stavros 1y ago
  I don't see why you're assuming that Americans won't get both bans and unbanking.
  - barelysapient 1y ago
    That would require a court order against VC and MC, that they in turn might contest, and possibly get suspended--even if temporarily. But in Canada, bureaucrat Foo talked to bureaucrat Baz, and presto--you're unbanked!
    - stavros 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - barelysapient 1y ago
        Disingenuous?! According the article, that's exactly what happened in Candada! https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60383385 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60383385 With no need for court orders, banks can freeze personal accounts of anyone linked with the protests. ... But the Canadian Civil Liberties Association disagreed, warning that the move "threatens our democracy and our civil liberties".
    - toyg 1y ago
      The WikiLeaks experience kinda demolishes your argument.
      - barelysapient 1y ago
abtinf 1y ago
Briefly reading about it Iterac for the first time, it looks basically just like a Canadian version of Visa. Tangentially, Canada has a much saner banking system than the US, in that it has a handful of very large banks which are inherently much more stable than the many thousands of banks/credit unions in the US.
limagnolia 1y ago
Care to elaborate? Based on the Interac Wikipedia page, I see nothing that would indicate that their monopoly in Canada is any better than the MasterCard/Visa Duopoly in the USA.
- aiiane 1y ago
  Interac doesn't have a monopoly in Canada; Visa / MC obviously have a presence as well.
  - limagnolia 1y ago
    Are there Visa and MasterCard Debitcards there? From what I saw, and again only a basic look, Interac is the only major player for Debit Cards. Of course, I welcome more competition if Interac were to enter the USA market.
    - aiiane 1y ago
      Yes, and in some cases both, e.g. Scotiabank has debit cards that allow both Visa and Interac transactions: https://www.scotiabank.com/ca/en/personal/ways-to-bank/debit-credit-card-purchases/visa-debit.html https://www.scotiabank.com/ca/en/personal/ways-to-bank/debit...
toast0 1y ago
The US already has several debit card networks; debit cards are also required to be usable on at least two unaffiliated networks, so there's a requirement for options while charging a card. [1] However, debit card transactions are unpopular. Users would rather pay later than now, especially when dealing with fraud or returns; rewards credit cards are popular and merchants typically don't charge more for credit than debit, so the user gets a nominal dollar discount and a time value of money discount when using credit (otoh, the merchant also gets paid with a discount and paid in arrears). Many of the interbank networks were formed by a consortium of banks, as was Interac; Mastercard was also formed this way (as Interbank). [1] https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-12/chapter-II/subchapter-A/part-235/section-235.7 https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-12/chapter-II/subchapter-...
- t-writescode 1y ago
  And even still, my debit card says “Mastercard”, so it’s still using their protocols.
  - aiiane 1y ago
    Interac is an example of a debit card system that specifically isn't using the Visa / Mastercard protocols.
    - dleslie 1y ago
      Most banks (all?) provide Interac cards that can operate with Visa/Mastercard protocols. They won't allow you to incur debt, but you can use them as a credit card. It's helpful when traveling abroad to places that do not have Interac.

I hadn't heard of Interac before but it looks perfect. It’s outrageous that private duopolies control > 95% of transactions in the country.

throawaywpg 1y ago
in Canada im pretty sure 95% of the population doesn't know Interac is Canadian only or different from debit in any way.

dmitrygr 1y ago

Perhaps Canada should hang its head in shame and stay humbly quiet on the topic of de-banking https://www.newsweek.com/banks-have-begun-freezing-accounts-linked-trucker-protest-1680649 https://www.newsweek.com/banks-have-begun-freezing-accounts-...

dleslie 1y ago
Nothing shameful about attempting to use temporary, non-violent means to end the occupation of the nations' capital, and the blockage of border crossings, when the occupying group has produced a MOU that calls for the dissolution of Government and voluntary removal of all bureaucrats and Senators who disagree with them, under threat of the Governor General refusing to allow Parliament to sit again.
- dmitrygr 1y ago
  Here in USA we have a constitutionally-called-out inalienable right to petition (yell at gvmnt critters, words to be chosen for occasion) and assemble (do so in groups, arbitrarily large). Take a lesson.

throawaywpg 1y ago

as a Canadian its bizarre that the USA of all places is behind us in card-payment technology. I went to LA in 2016 and they had never heard of a chip in a credit card, only swipe.

toast0 1y ago
That's just fallout from the US's first mover advantage.
Insanity 1y ago
As a European living in Canada, Canadian banking is already lagging behind on the EU banking I had. Paying online with Debit Cards is possible (at least in Belgium), alongside 2FA, not just entering 3 digits on the back of a card. And when dealing with RBC, their mobile app is.. not great.
bluGill 1y ago
Chip vs swipe is meaningless to people. They both work. The us had good protection for swipe fraud so nobody cares. The EU went to chip+pin because historically their consumer laws were inferior.
- throawaywpg 1y ago
  chips last longer!

barelysapient 1y ago

The Canadian government unbanked protestors they were unhappy with. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/22/world/americas/canada-protest-finances.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/22/world/americas/canada-pro... I think Americans are better off with annoying blocks on porn than the alternative.

stavros 1y ago
I don't see why you're assuming that Americans won't get both bans and unbanking.
- barelysapient 1y ago
  That would require a court order against VC and MC, that they in turn might contest, and possibly get suspended--even if temporarily. But in Canada, bureaucrat Foo talked to bureaucrat Baz, and presto--you're unbanked!
  - stavros 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - barelysapient 1y ago
      Disingenuous?! According the article, that's exactly what happened in Candada! https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60383385 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60383385 With no need for court orders, banks can freeze personal accounts of anyone linked with the protests. ... But the Canadian Civil Liberties Association disagreed, warning that the move "threatens our democracy and our civil liberties".
  - toyg 1y ago
    The WikiLeaks experience kinda demolishes your argument.
    - barelysapient 1y ago

abtinf 1y ago

Briefly reading about it Iterac for the first time, it looks basically just like a Canadian version of Visa. Tangentially, Canada has a much saner banking system than the US, in that it has a handful of very large banks which are inherently much more stable than the many thousands of banks/credit unions in the US.

limagnolia 1y ago

Care to elaborate? Based on the Interac Wikipedia page, I see nothing that would indicate that their monopoly in Canada is any better than the MasterCard/Visa Duopoly in the USA.

aiiane 1y ago
Interac doesn't have a monopoly in Canada; Visa / MC obviously have a presence as well.
- limagnolia 1y ago
  Are there Visa and MasterCard Debitcards there? From what I saw, and again only a basic look, Interac is the only major player for Debit Cards. Of course, I welcome more competition if Interac were to enter the USA market.
  - aiiane 1y ago
    Yes, and in some cases both, e.g. Scotiabank has debit cards that allow both Visa and Interac transactions: https://www.scotiabank.com/ca/en/personal/ways-to-bank/debit-credit-card-purchases/visa-debit.html https://www.scotiabank.com/ca/en/personal/ways-to-bank/debit...

toast0 1y ago

The US already has several debit card networks; debit cards are also required to be usable on at least two unaffiliated networks, so there's a requirement for options while charging a card. [1] However, debit card transactions are unpopular. Users would rather pay later than now, especially when dealing with fraud or returns; rewards credit cards are popular and merchants typically don't charge more for credit than debit, so the user gets a nominal dollar discount and a time value of money discount when using credit (otoh, the merchant also gets paid with a discount and paid in arrears). Many of the interbank networks were formed by a consortium of banks, as was Interac; Mastercard was also formed this way (as Interbank). [1] https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-12/chapter-II/subchapter-A/part-235/section-235.7 https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-12/chapter-II/subchapter-...

t-writescode 1y ago
And even still, my debit card says “Mastercard”, so it’s still using their protocols.
- aiiane 1y ago
  Interac is an example of a debit card system that specifically isn't using the Visa / Mastercard protocols.
  - dleslie 1y ago
    Most banks (all?) provide Interac cards that can operate with Visa/Mastercard protocols. They won't allow you to incur debt, but you can use them as a credit card. It's helpful when traveling abroad to places that do not have Interac.