4 ms·

I've heard from Spanish friends living in the UK that the NHS is so bad, they fly back to Spain for medical checks and even to see the dentist. That's mind blow

by pyman 1y ago

I've heard from Spanish friends living in the UK that the NHS is so bad, they fly back to Spain for medical checks and even to see the dentist. That's mind blowing.

winterismute 1y ago
Living in the UK but being from another EU country, I definitely see that happening. However, a lot of times it is just due to habits, wrongly-placed mistrust, or not being well settled-in yet because, at the end of the day, there are eg. better GPs and worse GPs everywhere in the world, but if you are still "new" to the country you simply do not know which ones are which, so you prefer to go to the ones you know already.
- pyman 1y ago
  Makes sense. I'm not entirely sure if the UK has a public-private health system. What I do know is that companies offer private health insurance, even though everyone has access to the NHS. That suggests there's a private system in place, one that probably attracts the most experienced and competent doctors and GPs?
  - vidarh 1y ago
    About 10% of people have private health insurance, but note that a large proportion of service providers in the private space also work for the NHS. E.g. my old GP used to provide both private and NHS services (they were precluded by their NHS contracts from providing private services to people registered with them with the NHS). Many NHS trusts also provide private services, as they are allowed to do so to improve utilisation and supplement their budgets, so in practice this is part of the reason the NHS is so cheap compared to universal systems in similarly rich countries. Most private hospitals in the UK also e.g. rely on NHS for intensive care, and this, along with relying on the NHS for first-line care (A&E, GP's unless there's a wait, etc.) is also why private health insurance in the UK is unusually cheap, and why private hospitals in the UK are unusually cheap (if you're in the US, and planning elective treatments, it can be cheaper to fly to London and do it here, even factoring in hotels - and some Central London hospitals have hotel suites, and at least one have or had a previously Michelin starred chef because they cater - literally - to high-end international healthcare tourism).
    - pyman 1y ago
      Oh yeah, healthcare in the US is insanely expensive. They have top professionals, but if you don't have money for long, complex treatments, your options are basically: sell your house, or fly to Cuba, Costa Rica, or the UK for treatment.
johnisgood 1y ago
Not just Spanish, Polish people do the same.
- pyman 1y ago
  Do you know why that is? Are the waiting lists just too long, or is the service actually bad? Or a bit of both?
  - jdietrich 1y ago
    The median wait to be seen by a specialist is currently 14 weeks, but the range is much larger and some patients will wait as much as a year for a non-urgent referral. Those waits are on top of a lot of de-facto rationing; referrals will often be rejected for fairly spurious reasons, purely to manage demand. Speaking personally, the biggest issue isn't the waiting, but the chaos and uncertainty. Every part of the NHS is in a constant state of crisis management. I don't terribly mind that I usually have to wait about two weeks to see my GP (family doctor), but I do object to the fact that I'll invariably be seen by a locum (temporary) doctor who doesn't know how the local systems work and won't be there if I need a follow-up appointment. I could live with waiting lists if they were always 14 weeks, but it's incredibly disruptive to not know if it might be 14 or 40 weeks, to not know if your long-awaited appointment will be cancelled with no notice due to staff shortages or industrial action. I've almost got used to the fact that the corridors of my local hospital are permanently full of "temporary" overflow beds, primarily occupied by frail elderly people, often in considerable distress, sometimes obviously neglected. I'm fairly high-agency and I feel that the system is hostile and difficult to navigate; I have no doubt that many patients who are less able to advocate for themselves suffer preventable deaths because they fell through the cracks.
    - pyman 1y ago
      Thanks for sharing, makes a lot more sense now why people fly back home for treatment. First time I've heard of someone having to wait 14 to 40 weeks for an appointment. That's mad.
vidarh 1y ago
Having lived in the UK for 25 years, and being from Norway, which has one of the consistently top ranked (though extremely costly compared to the NHS) healthcare systems, I have not had any problems relying on the NHS for 25 years for most things. There are times I opt for private services for speed, because I can afford to, but I could also afford private health insurance (which is cheap in the UK), and haven't felt the need to. That said, dental is a weak spot of the NHS, with too few dentists offering NHS services, and there's a perceived quality difference in that the NHS treatments have fee caps that mean they will often not include the best aesthetic options. For dental I do tend to go private (but dental for adults is also excluded in quite a few other "universal" healthcare systems - like Norway; don't know about Spain)
- pyman 1y ago
  Oh, so the UK has a public-private health system. > There are times I opt for private services for speed I'm guessing the NHS, being public, comes with long waiting lists. So it's more about speed than quality of service? I'd assume most doctors with 20–30 years of experience are working in the private sector, right?
  - arethuza 1y ago
    In a lot of cases they are the same doctors working for both the NHS and having private patients.
    - pyman 1y ago
      Oh that's interesting. I wouldn't expect a surgeon with 20 years experience to show up at a public hospital. I do like the idea though, it gives new doctors a chance to learn from them. But I'm not sure what the experienced doctor gets out of it, to be honest.
      - vidarh 1y ago
        It's pretty much the other way around here. For a private hospital, getting someone with experience from the NHS is to a large extent a prestige thing, and you'll find that the practioners profiles on private provider websites often highlights their NHS background. So what they get out of it is at least to some extent that it is expected many places as a means to getting job offers from private providers.
secondcoming 1y ago
I know of Polish people who do this too.
- pyman 1y ago
  Do you know why that is? Are the waiting lists just too long, or is the service actually bad? Or a bit of both?
dazc 1y ago
I have heard the exact same thing. The reason given being a lack of confidence in whoever they were dealing with. For many people, first contact with the NHS is the 111 call centre which really is akin to a health lottery.

by pyman 1y ago

I've heard from Spanish friends living in the UK that the NHS is so bad, they fly back to Spain for medical checks and even to see the dentist. That's mind blowing.

winterismute 1y ago

Living in the UK but being from another EU country, I definitely see that happening. However, a lot of times it is just due to habits, wrongly-placed mistrust, or not being well settled-in yet because, at the end of the day, there are eg. better GPs and worse GPs everywhere in the world, but if you are still "new" to the country you simply do not know which ones are which, so you prefer to go to the ones you know already.

pyman 1y ago
Makes sense. I'm not entirely sure if the UK has a public-private health system. What I do know is that companies offer private health insurance, even though everyone has access to the NHS. That suggests there's a private system in place, one that probably attracts the most experienced and competent doctors and GPs?
- vidarh 1y ago
  About 10% of people have private health insurance, but note that a large proportion of service providers in the private space also work for the NHS. E.g. my old GP used to provide both private and NHS services (they were precluded by their NHS contracts from providing private services to people registered with them with the NHS). Many NHS trusts also provide private services, as they are allowed to do so to improve utilisation and supplement their budgets, so in practice this is part of the reason the NHS is so cheap compared to universal systems in similarly rich countries. Most private hospitals in the UK also e.g. rely on NHS for intensive care, and this, along with relying on the NHS for first-line care (A&E, GP's unless there's a wait, etc.) is also why private health insurance in the UK is unusually cheap, and why private hospitals in the UK are unusually cheap (if you're in the US, and planning elective treatments, it can be cheaper to fly to London and do it here, even factoring in hotels - and some Central London hospitals have hotel suites, and at least one have or had a previously Michelin starred chef because they cater - literally - to high-end international healthcare tourism).
  - pyman 1y ago
    Oh yeah, healthcare in the US is insanely expensive. They have top professionals, but if you don't have money for long, complex treatments, your options are basically: sell your house, or fly to Cuba, Costa Rica, or the UK for treatment.

johnisgood 1y ago

Not just Spanish, Polish people do the same.

pyman 1y ago
Do you know why that is? Are the waiting lists just too long, or is the service actually bad? Or a bit of both?
- jdietrich 1y ago
  The median wait to be seen by a specialist is currently 14 weeks, but the range is much larger and some patients will wait as much as a year for a non-urgent referral. Those waits are on top of a lot of de-facto rationing; referrals will often be rejected for fairly spurious reasons, purely to manage demand. Speaking personally, the biggest issue isn't the waiting, but the chaos and uncertainty. Every part of the NHS is in a constant state of crisis management. I don't terribly mind that I usually have to wait about two weeks to see my GP (family doctor), but I do object to the fact that I'll invariably be seen by a locum (temporary) doctor who doesn't know how the local systems work and won't be there if I need a follow-up appointment. I could live with waiting lists if they were always 14 weeks, but it's incredibly disruptive to not know if it might be 14 or 40 weeks, to not know if your long-awaited appointment will be cancelled with no notice due to staff shortages or industrial action. I've almost got used to the fact that the corridors of my local hospital are permanently full of "temporary" overflow beds, primarily occupied by frail elderly people, often in considerable distress, sometimes obviously neglected. I'm fairly high-agency and I feel that the system is hostile and difficult to navigate; I have no doubt that many patients who are less able to advocate for themselves suffer preventable deaths because they fell through the cracks.
  - pyman 1y ago
    Thanks for sharing, makes a lot more sense now why people fly back home for treatment. First time I've heard of someone having to wait 14 to 40 weeks for an appointment. That's mad.

vidarh 1y ago

Having lived in the UK for 25 years, and being from Norway, which has one of the consistently top ranked (though extremely costly compared to the NHS) healthcare systems, I have not had any problems relying on the NHS for 25 years for most things. There are times I opt for private services for speed, because I can afford to, but I could also afford private health insurance (which is cheap in the UK), and haven't felt the need to. That said, dental is a weak spot of the NHS, with too few dentists offering NHS services, and there's a perceived quality difference in that the NHS treatments have fee caps that mean they will often not include the best aesthetic options. For dental I do tend to go private (but dental for adults is also excluded in quite a few other "universal" healthcare systems - like Norway; don't know about Spain)

pyman 1y ago
Oh, so the UK has a public-private health system. > There are times I opt for private services for speed I'm guessing the NHS, being public, comes with long waiting lists. So it's more about speed than quality of service? I'd assume most doctors with 20–30 years of experience are working in the private sector, right?
- arethuza 1y ago
  In a lot of cases they are the same doctors working for both the NHS and having private patients.
  - pyman 1y ago
    Oh that's interesting. I wouldn't expect a surgeon with 20 years experience to show up at a public hospital. I do like the idea though, it gives new doctors a chance to learn from them. But I'm not sure what the experienced doctor gets out of it, to be honest.
    - vidarh 1y ago
      It's pretty much the other way around here. For a private hospital, getting someone with experience from the NHS is to a large extent a prestige thing, and you'll find that the practioners profiles on private provider websites often highlights their NHS background. So what they get out of it is at least to some extent that it is expected many places as a means to getting job offers from private providers.

secondcoming 1y ago

I know of Polish people who do this too.

pyman 1y ago
Do you know why that is? Are the waiting lists just too long, or is the service actually bad? Or a bit of both?

dazc 1y ago

I have heard the exact same thing. The reason given being a lack of confidence in whoever they were dealing with. For many people, first contact with the NHS is the 111 call centre which really is akin to a health lottery.