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Here (switzerland) lights turn red on purpose to slow down traffic. The idea is that if you see a green light in the distance, you are motivated to speed up to

by kuon 1y ago

Here (switzerland) lights turn red on purpose to slow down traffic. The idea is that if you see a green light in the distance, you are motivated to speed up to catch it before it turns red. If it is red in the distance, you slow down because you eventually have to stop, and when you are like 20m from it, detectors will see you and turn it green.

sschueller 1y ago
Aka Grünewelle (Green-wave)[1] if you drive the speed limit every light you reach will turn green. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_wave https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_wave
- Noumenon72 1y ago
  Thanks for explaining, because the OP made it sound like the red light tricked you into wastefully shedding speed instead of letting you stay at the speed limit. Their language makes it sound like they view slowing traffic as intrinsically good, rather than just trying to prevent speeding.
  - kuon 1y ago
    I should have been clearer on two behaviors. What I describe is if you are "alone". Green light often (not everywhere) don't stay green if there is no car. But if there is traffic, it is made in such a way that when you get a green somewhere, you can expect every subsequent intersection to turn green when the head of the traffic arrives. So the first vehicle will see a red light turn green as they approach, and the ideal timing is around the speed limit. Further cars will have a green light, but with no intensive to speed as they are sandwiched between cars. Also I should say that this is empirical evidence based on about 20 intersections I pass often. I don't know how much of a rule it is country wise as I don't pay attention to that when I go places I don't routinely go.
rob74 1y ago
My experience as a cyclist contradicts that: many motorists will still (riskily) overtake you just to reach the red light sooner. Some people apparently just can't stand to have anyone driving before them. See also: people passing by you on a multi-lane highway and then promptly slowing down once they have returned to your lane...
- gruez 1y ago
  >My experience as a cyclist contradicts that: many motorists will still (riskily) overtake you just to reach the red light sooner. Some people apparently just can't stand to have anyone driving before them. ??? Seems like the far more plausible reason is that drivers don't want to be held up by a cyclist traveling at 10mph in front of them? Moreover if it's really true that lights only turn from red once a car reached them, then it makes sense to maintain speed (including overtaking any bicycles), because getting to the light faster means it turns to green sooner.
  - shkkmo 1y ago
    > Seems like the far more plausible reason is that drivers don't want to be held up by a cyclist traveling at 10mph in front of them? You sound like one of thos drivers who believe it's OK to put other people at risk to save themselves a couple of seconds. I see this all the time in my large truck that I'm very good at coasting into red lights. Even when there are already vehicles stopped at the light, people will not only stay on the gas way later than necessary and then brake unnecessarily hard but will also pass me to be sitting one car length further ahead at that light. Often it is done dangerously, without turn signals or proper blind spot checks. I know this because I've also almost been hit repeatedly on my motorcycle by cars doing this.
    - gruez 1y ago
      >You sound like one of thos drivers who believe it's OK to put other people at risk to save themselves a couple of seconds. See my other comment. My point isn't that it's suddenly okay to overtake because the driver can shave off 5s, just that the cartoonishly evil caricature of the driver's reasoning that OP dreamed up isn't accurate. Unfortunately, judging by the downvotes it seems like people are interpreting my opposition to OP's claim that "Some people apparently just can't stand to have anyone driving before them" as me arguing that it's fine for drivers to mow down cyclists to save 5s.
potato3732842 1y ago
Sounds like a great way to train people to run red lights. God only knows how many different industries best practices are being violated by that.
kazinator 1y ago
Sounds like they never heard of Goodhart's law. They rigged a system which measures behavior (distance of approaching vehicle) and tied it to decision making (controlling a traffic light) in order to create an incentive toward a certain desired behavior. That's a prime example of something where people will learn the system and game it to optimize their own advantage instead of the desired behavior.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

by kuon 1y ago

sschueller 1y ago

Aka Grünewelle (Green-wave)[1] if you drive the speed limit every light you reach will turn green. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_wave https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_wave

Noumenon72 1y ago
Thanks for explaining, because the OP made it sound like the red light tricked you into wastefully shedding speed instead of letting you stay at the speed limit. Their language makes it sound like they view slowing traffic as intrinsically good, rather than just trying to prevent speeding.
- kuon 1y ago
  I should have been clearer on two behaviors. What I describe is if you are "alone". Green light often (not everywhere) don't stay green if there is no car. But if there is traffic, it is made in such a way that when you get a green somewhere, you can expect every subsequent intersection to turn green when the head of the traffic arrives. So the first vehicle will see a red light turn green as they approach, and the ideal timing is around the speed limit. Further cars will have a green light, but with no intensive to speed as they are sandwiched between cars. Also I should say that this is empirical evidence based on about 20 intersections I pass often. I don't know how much of a rule it is country wise as I don't pay attention to that when I go places I don't routinely go.

rob74 1y ago

My experience as a cyclist contradicts that: many motorists will still (riskily) overtake you just to reach the red light sooner. Some people apparently just can't stand to have anyone driving before them. See also: people passing by you on a multi-lane highway and then promptly slowing down once they have returned to your lane...

gruez 1y ago
>My experience as a cyclist contradicts that: many motorists will still (riskily) overtake you just to reach the red light sooner. Some people apparently just can't stand to have anyone driving before them. ??? Seems like the far more plausible reason is that drivers don't want to be held up by a cyclist traveling at 10mph in front of them? Moreover if it's really true that lights only turn from red once a car reached them, then it makes sense to maintain speed (including overtaking any bicycles), because getting to the light faster means it turns to green sooner.
- shkkmo 1y ago
  > Seems like the far more plausible reason is that drivers don't want to be held up by a cyclist traveling at 10mph in front of them? You sound like one of thos drivers who believe it's OK to put other people at risk to save themselves a couple of seconds. I see this all the time in my large truck that I'm very good at coasting into red lights. Even when there are already vehicles stopped at the light, people will not only stay on the gas way later than necessary and then brake unnecessarily hard but will also pass me to be sitting one car length further ahead at that light. Often it is done dangerously, without turn signals or proper blind spot checks. I know this because I've also almost been hit repeatedly on my motorcycle by cars doing this.
  - gruez 1y ago
    >You sound like one of thos drivers who believe it's OK to put other people at risk to save themselves a couple of seconds. See my other comment. My point isn't that it's suddenly okay to overtake because the driver can shave off 5s, just that the cartoonishly evil caricature of the driver's reasoning that OP dreamed up isn't accurate. Unfortunately, judging by the downvotes it seems like people are interpreting my opposition to OP's claim that "Some people apparently just can't stand to have anyone driving before them" as me arguing that it's fine for drivers to mow down cyclists to save 5s.

potato3732842 1y ago

Sounds like a great way to train people to run red lights. God only knows how many different industries best practices are being violated by that.

kazinator 1y ago

Sounds like they never heard of Goodhart's law. They rigged a system which measures behavior (distance of approaching vehicle) and tied it to decision making (controlling a traffic light) in order to create an incentive toward a certain desired behavior. That's a prime example of something where people will learn the system and game it to optimize their own advantage instead of the desired behavior.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]