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The problem is, you almost always end up with a massive amount of overproduction. That either ends up diverted into fuel production, which raises ethical concer

The problem is, you almost always end up with a massive amount of overproduction. That either ends up diverted into fuel production, which raises ethical concerns on one side and prolongs the use of fossil fuels because it's "effectively free" and so stops people from switching over to electric mobility on the other side. And on top of that, many Western countries routinely dump their overproduction on Africa, where as a result of all that free aid, local food production industry has all but vanished. Up until the '00s, Simbabwe was known as "Africa's corn chamber" - that is long gone now.

burnt-resistor 1y ago
Grain overproduction is also a significant driver of climate change. Fossil fuels, meat, and GMO monocultures aren't ecologically sustainable in current form, they continue because of capture of factions of governments by corrupt lobbying interests who threaten elected officials into driving more cash and favorable regulations their way.
- b112 1y ago
  People need to stop pointing the finger at food production, with such massive blinders on. Food "overproduction", are you actually serious? Are people so removed from farming, and food production, that they think it's a simple thing? Plant X food, get X food? Absolutely not! Even with irrigation, there are years with drought, yes even in the West. There are years that are too cloudy, or too sunny (yes, too sunny is a thing). There are years with locusts, and no insecticide doesn't completely solve that. And regardless of global warming or not, some seasons have always been worse for hurricanes, tornadoes, and some events at harvest time can wipe out crops entirely! Outside of all of the above, few nations feed themselves on their own output. External food production can wither and vanish in an instant, whether through war, or inclement weather too. You must overproduce to ensure a continuity of food supply. It's the same reason that fallow farmland must be a thing, too. There must be extra, there must be a safety net. Only people who have never starved, never been truly hungry would espouse such things.
  - MindSpunk 1y ago
    We saw what happens when you use just-in-time manufacturing and keep minimal stock of material when covid collapsed supply chains a few years ago. Imagine if that was our food supply instead. The over production is the price we pay for food security.
  - 9rx 1y ago
    > and some events at harvest time can wipe out crops entirely! And that swings both ways. Last year, with the stars aligning just right, the corn yields around here were ~100 bushels per acre higher than even our most optimistic pre-harvest estimates. That is an incredible amount of unexpected extra product. Corn especially has a huge, unpredictable yield band. Which, of course, is exactly why we started producing corn-based ethanol. To buffer the periods of uncontrollable excess — where the previous alternative was to see it rot away.
  - mschuster91 1y ago
    I agree, but we have to take care that getting rid of excess production (i.e. post reserve building/maintenance) is not going to fuck up supply chains in other countries, like it did in Africa.

burnt-resistor 1y ago

Grain overproduction is also a significant driver of climate change. Fossil fuels, meat, and GMO monocultures aren't ecologically sustainable in current form, they continue because of capture of factions of governments by corrupt lobbying interests who threaten elected officials into driving more cash and favorable regulations their way.

b112 1y ago
People need to stop pointing the finger at food production, with such massive blinders on. Food "overproduction", are you actually serious? Are people so removed from farming, and food production, that they think it's a simple thing? Plant X food, get X food? Absolutely not! Even with irrigation, there are years with drought, yes even in the West. There are years that are too cloudy, or too sunny (yes, too sunny is a thing). There are years with locusts, and no insecticide doesn't completely solve that. And regardless of global warming or not, some seasons have always been worse for hurricanes, tornadoes, and some events at harvest time can wipe out crops entirely! Outside of all of the above, few nations feed themselves on their own output. External food production can wither and vanish in an instant, whether through war, or inclement weather too. You must overproduce to ensure a continuity of food supply. It's the same reason that fallow farmland must be a thing, too. There must be extra, there must be a safety net. Only people who have never starved, never been truly hungry would espouse such things.
- MindSpunk 1y ago
  We saw what happens when you use just-in-time manufacturing and keep minimal stock of material when covid collapsed supply chains a few years ago. Imagine if that was our food supply instead. The over production is the price we pay for food security.
- 9rx 1y ago
  > and some events at harvest time can wipe out crops entirely! And that swings both ways. Last year, with the stars aligning just right, the corn yields around here were ~100 bushels per acre higher than even our most optimistic pre-harvest estimates. That is an incredible amount of unexpected extra product. Corn especially has a huge, unpredictable yield band. Which, of course, is exactly why we started producing corn-based ethanol. To buffer the periods of uncontrollable excess — where the previous alternative was to see it rot away.
- mschuster91 1y ago
  I agree, but we have to take care that getting rid of excess production (i.e. post reserve building/maintenance) is not going to fuck up supply chains in other countries, like it did in Africa.