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But corn is _stored_ energy that can be used at any time. PV is energy ar the current moment. Seems like this 20x loss the cost of storage... Interesting take

But corn is _stored_ energy that can be used at any time. PV is energy ar the current moment. Seems like this 20x loss the cost of storage... Interesting take though, I'm not saying that growing corn is best way to "produce stored energy", but in your comparison it's almost like direct competition to for PV + batteries of any sort.

zekrioca 1y ago
Batteries.
- bluGill 1y ago
  Not nearly as energy dense. Useful for some applicatons but liquid chemical fuels deliver more energy when space or weight are factors - despite the inefficiency.
  - PaulHoule 1y ago
    E-Fuels. Specifically https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyl_ether https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyl_ether for agricultural engines in California because with no C-C bonds it is a soot free diesel fuel.
    - bluGill 1y ago
      Not that it can't work, but that looks like oil companies trying to kill what we have today with a promise of something better in the future so they can keep selling oil.
      - PaulHoule 1y ago
        EVs make sense for passenger cars, not so much for heavy vehicles. People might still want to be driving classic cars in the future too. Hydrogen for any kind of vehicle looks dead in the water, though green hydrogen looks essential for chemical manufacturing. (Funny, as with carbon capture, some of the best economics are in the oil business; there is a huge hydrodesulfurization plant in Saudia Arabia that lower its Scope I carbon footprint significantly by using hydrogen from PV) Battery storage looks practical to smooth out diurnal variation in power supply and demand but doesn't look so practical to smooth out seasonal variations, some kind of chemical storage could be the way.
        spauldo 1y ago
        It's not surprising, really. Oil companies know green energy is going to supplant oil eventually, so at the same time they lobby against renewables they're also working to make sure they still have a place in the future energy economy. I'm not saying they aren't doing their share of greenwashing, but they legitimately are doing development in biofuels and hydrogen.
  - zekrioca 1y ago
    What use cases in agriculture are you referring to? I do not see space or weight being issues. Just see what happens to corn and ethanol.
horseradish7k 1y ago
it's at the current moment, but somewhat constant and predictable. the sun is available all year round*.

zekrioca 1y ago

Batteries.

bluGill 1y ago
Not nearly as energy dense. Useful for some applicatons but liquid chemical fuels deliver more energy when space or weight are factors - despite the inefficiency.
- PaulHoule 1y ago
  E-Fuels. Specifically https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyl_ether https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyl_ether for agricultural engines in California because with no C-C bonds it is a soot free diesel fuel.
  - bluGill 1y ago
    Not that it can't work, but that looks like oil companies trying to kill what we have today with a promise of something better in the future so they can keep selling oil.
    - PaulHoule 1y ago
      EVs make sense for passenger cars, not so much for heavy vehicles. People might still want to be driving classic cars in the future too. Hydrogen for any kind of vehicle looks dead in the water, though green hydrogen looks essential for chemical manufacturing. (Funny, as with carbon capture, some of the best economics are in the oil business; there is a huge hydrodesulfurization plant in Saudia Arabia that lower its Scope I carbon footprint significantly by using hydrogen from PV) Battery storage looks practical to smooth out diurnal variation in power supply and demand but doesn't look so practical to smooth out seasonal variations, some kind of chemical storage could be the way.
      - spauldo 1y ago
        It's not surprising, really. Oil companies know green energy is going to supplant oil eventually, so at the same time they lobby against renewables they're also working to make sure they still have a place in the future energy economy. I'm not saying they aren't doing their share of greenwashing, but they legitimately are doing development in biofuels and hydrogen.
- zekrioca 1y ago
  What use cases in agriculture are you referring to? I do not see space or weight being issues. Just see what happens to corn and ethanol.

horseradish7k 1y ago

it's at the current moment, but somewhat constant and predictable. the sun is available all year round*.