4 ms·

I wonder if any Romans evidence had any evidence of population-level delirium from lead consumption...

cjbgkagh 1y ago
Lower intelligence would likely surface as hedonistic behavior which is probably hard to distinguish from decadence. Decadence and hedonism were constantly being complained about long before the eventual fall.
- evertedsphere 1y ago
  > Lower intelligence would likely surface as hedonistic behavior why do you think so
  - cjbgkagh 1y ago
    [dead]
  - throawaywpg 1y ago
    poor decision making
- hinkley 1y ago
  Violence in the US declined as children born around and after leaded gas was banned reached the average age of first offense. It’s quite a line.
  - cjbgkagh 1y ago
    You're going to have to explain your point to me, or perhaps you misunderstood my own. My point is that while it may have been unclear to the Romans as to the cause of changes in behavior they did notice a change and did complain about it a lot. I accept the premise that lead poisoning leads to lower intelligence.
    - hinkley 1y ago
      What we know now is that lead’s effects are more pronounced as developmental issues. A little lead exposure as a child can lead to a violent temper. So once children were not born into a low grade cloud of lead contamination, they were set up for fewer mood disturbances as teenagers and young adults. Feeling like violence is your best avenue for conflict resolution leads to crime. So the change wasn’t over night, it was over 20 years. I expect that whatever effect was going on in Rome if there was one, which seems to be up for debate, counted on pregnant women exposed to lead via alcohol and acidic foods, neither of which young children would normally encounter. Meanwhile lead dust from exhaust got -everywhere-, and paint a lot of places.
      - cjbgkagh 1y ago
        I still think you are agreeing with the implied and later stated accepted premise that there is a correlation and it’s not always obvious, I’m still unsure as to what it is you are trying to add.
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > Violence in the US declined as children born around and after leaded gas was banned reached the average age of first offense My pet hypothesis for the generation born after in the mid postwar era having been a general scourge on America is that we had a population boom amidst lead.
- paleotrope 1y ago
  Hard to square the fall with lead poisoning when the leadership after the 3rd century hardly even bothered to go to Rome at all. It's too easy to point at the Claudians as the beginning of the fall. In a way, the "Real" Roman empire began to fail once Augustus took over.

Lower intelligence would likely surface as hedonistic behavior which is probably hard to distinguish from decadence. Decadence and hedonism were constantly being complained about long before the eventual fall.

evertedsphere 1y ago
> Lower intelligence would likely surface as hedonistic behavior why do you think so
- cjbgkagh 1y ago
  [dead]
- throawaywpg 1y ago
  poor decision making
hinkley 1y ago
Violence in the US declined as children born around and after leaded gas was banned reached the average age of first offense. It’s quite a line.
- cjbgkagh 1y ago
  You're going to have to explain your point to me, or perhaps you misunderstood my own. My point is that while it may have been unclear to the Romans as to the cause of changes in behavior they did notice a change and did complain about it a lot. I accept the premise that lead poisoning leads to lower intelligence.
  - hinkley 1y ago
    What we know now is that lead’s effects are more pronounced as developmental issues. A little lead exposure as a child can lead to a violent temper. So once children were not born into a low grade cloud of lead contamination, they were set up for fewer mood disturbances as teenagers and young adults. Feeling like violence is your best avenue for conflict resolution leads to crime. So the change wasn’t over night, it was over 20 years. I expect that whatever effect was going on in Rome if there was one, which seems to be up for debate, counted on pregnant women exposed to lead via alcohol and acidic foods, neither of which young children would normally encounter. Meanwhile lead dust from exhaust got -everywhere-, and paint a lot of places.
    - cjbgkagh 1y ago
      I still think you are agreeing with the implied and later stated accepted premise that there is a correlation and it’s not always obvious, I’m still unsure as to what it is you are trying to add.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > Violence in the US declined as children born around and after leaded gas was banned reached the average age of first offense My pet hypothesis for the generation born after in the mid postwar era having been a general scourge on America is that we had a population boom amidst lead.
paleotrope 1y ago
Hard to square the fall with lead poisoning when the leadership after the 3rd century hardly even bothered to go to Rome at all. It's too easy to point at the Claudians as the beginning of the fall. In a way, the "Real" Roman empire began to fail once Augustus took over.