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I am endlessly fascinated by how almost the entire American elite has just accepted the federal government being couped and at least four years of just self-dea

I am endlessly fascinated by how almost the entire American elite has just accepted the federal government being couped and at least four years of just self-dealing, corruption, theft and all of policy being driven by whatever idiotic childish whims one senile old man has, completely unrestrained by congress or courts or advisors. are they just this pathetic? or do they largely see this as personally beneficial?

jrs235 1y ago
I'm going to assume both answers are the same and that the answer is "Yes".
Guid_NewGuid 1y ago
I have a theory that this is built into the American system. People are brainwashed into thinking the system of government is perfect and unimpeachable (pledge of allegiance, constitution being this holy scripture). So when the imperfect system inevitably breaks down it is regarded as an unavoidable outcome. Because the system delivered the outcome it must be the only possibility.
- jrs235 1y ago
  American Exceptionalism, and the belief of the United States superiority and infallibility, is built on quasi-religious beliefs. The holy documents include the Declaration of Independence and Constitution. Those that follow it hold up the founding fathers on pedestals and work to cover their negative attributes/sins (being and benefitting from being slave owners, many having adulterous affairs, etc.) To not hold such pride is to be unpatriotic according to followers. Heresy and blasphemy which should get people kicked out or killed.
- UncleEntity 1y ago
  I think a big part of the problem is everyone just kind of assumed no one would get up to the kinds of shenanigans the current administrations is engaging in. Kind of like a 'please take one' sign on a bucket of Halloween candy breaks down really, really fast in the presence of bad actors. Currently, the courts are the only 'checks and balances' on the executive branch and they operate slowly by design. Eventually this will all get sorted out and we'll get back to normalcy assuming, of course, 'free and fair elections' survive the turmoil.
  - freeopinion 1y ago
    I think it incredible that people are outraged at the audacity of a POTUS who would divert a billion dollars into a vanity airplane, but they don't blink at all about the $140 billion project from which the funds were diverted.
DangitBobby 1y ago
Well it's been pretty effectively demonstrated that impeachment is not an option and he has the protection of the SC so I don't know what you think should happen. I guess they could start trying to rip Congress and the Senate apart to make impeachment possible but I think that would take at least a couple of years.
- tuna74 1y ago
  The House of Representatives can impeach Trump (they should), the Supreme Court said that that is the way to deal with a president doing illegal stuff.
  - scrubs 1y ago
    Correct. As i argued above congress is the main culprit in all this. It's instiutionally decrepit, incompetent among other things not checking executive power and doing their job. Congress can impeach the president if there's will to do so. And the Supreme court won't touch that with a 100ft pole.
jaybrendansmith 1y ago
Who is the American elite? If you mean billionaires...they are all in on the take. If you mean big business, they are hoping for the destruction of the regulatory state, you know, the one that keeps citizens safe and healthy. If you mean the intelligentsia, they are being cowed, threatened, and fired into submission ... most will start looking for a clean exit to Europe very soon. So which elite do you mean?
bigbadfeline 1y ago
> are they just this pathetic? or do they largely see this as personally beneficial? They don't "see this", they control it. > I am endlessly fascinated by how almost the entire American elite has just accepted... policy being driven by idiotic childish whims There's nothing idiotic, childish or whimsy - bread for some, circuses for the rest - it's a scheme old as the world. The reality show isn't real.
yongjik 1y ago
Half of American voters elected an idiot based on such nice slogans as "Drain the swamp" and "Own the libs," and the said idiot is appointing to essential government positions other idiots who would be politely shown the door in any meeting of social "elites" if America was a sane country. Sure, the elites of America have a lot of power, but they don't have enough power to override the combined force of the POTUS and half of the country. What do you expect them to do? This has all the same vibe as "How could Democrats let it happen?" (Yes, Democrats does have a lot of faults. But I'm tired of everything somehow being Democrats' fault.)
- lazyeye 1y ago
  "But I'm tired of everything somehow being Democrats' fault"....lol
  - scrubs 1y ago
    It's not wholly the dems fault. Nobody took the manhood and backbone from maga republicans: they gave it up themselves and willingly butt kissed. The dems are partially complicit insofar as they were a weak counterbalance 2016 and 2024. The more culpable entity is the US congress. As i see it it's instiutional stupidity is mainly (not totally) at the heart of the problem. It is hard to come up with first cause. But a helpful starting point for this mess was when Ross Perot ran as a populist. At that time both parties were at the start of an accelerating run of service to self and corporations over middle America. Then came newt gringrich and a whole bunch of other increasingly hyperbolic nonsense which contributed to fund raising off culture wars. America won't get fixed until congress gets fixed. A good president can pause decline but it cannot fix root causes
    - conartist6 1y ago
      I see social media algorithms as the fuel for the populist/culture-war trend. I was working at Facebook during the 2016 election and while we were trying very hard to say that Facebook didn't elect Trump by peddling Russian influence, there was almost no doubt that Trump's superior comprehension of the kind of direct-appeal "lowball" tactics that would be winning plays in that arena were the proximate cause of his victory. The platform strongly rewarded controversy because no kind of engagement was considered negative. It was a system designed to pick content that maximized engagement, so it was always going to favor grandstanding over truth-telling. By the way I agree with you wholeheartedly that the problem is that congress is not currently serving as the check and balance it was intended to be. What can we do about that? Is it time to end the filibuster?
scrubs 1y ago
I keep writing and in my personal conversations with Trump people and moderates i keep reminding: overshooting stupid far right will lead to stupid far left. We don't need that either. Time and time and time again power structures flaunt justice, due process etc. It never lasts. It's a crap shoot what comes next if what's going goes too far: will it be an enlightenment movement? The political equivalent of luther nailing up his complaints? Or a repeat of 20th century revolutions. Om the whole in the long run people don't put up with run away kings and all the BS of palace intrigue that goes with it. Control without accountability never lasts
- Whoppertime 1y ago
  Perhaps Joe Biden and the progressives were overshooting the last 4 years, leading to the excesses of Trump

jrs235 1y ago

I'm going to assume both answers are the same and that the answer is "Yes".

Guid_NewGuid 1y ago

I have a theory that this is built into the American system. People are brainwashed into thinking the system of government is perfect and unimpeachable (pledge of allegiance, constitution being this holy scripture). So when the imperfect system inevitably breaks down it is regarded as an unavoidable outcome. Because the system delivered the outcome it must be the only possibility.

jrs235 1y ago
American Exceptionalism, and the belief of the United States superiority and infallibility, is built on quasi-religious beliefs. The holy documents include the Declaration of Independence and Constitution. Those that follow it hold up the founding fathers on pedestals and work to cover their negative attributes/sins (being and benefitting from being slave owners, many having adulterous affairs, etc.) To not hold such pride is to be unpatriotic according to followers. Heresy and blasphemy which should get people kicked out or killed.
UncleEntity 1y ago
I think a big part of the problem is everyone just kind of assumed no one would get up to the kinds of shenanigans the current administrations is engaging in. Kind of like a 'please take one' sign on a bucket of Halloween candy breaks down really, really fast in the presence of bad actors. Currently, the courts are the only 'checks and balances' on the executive branch and they operate slowly by design. Eventually this will all get sorted out and we'll get back to normalcy assuming, of course, 'free and fair elections' survive the turmoil.
- freeopinion 1y ago
  I think it incredible that people are outraged at the audacity of a POTUS who would divert a billion dollars into a vanity airplane, but they don't blink at all about the $140 billion project from which the funds were diverted.

DangitBobby 1y ago

Well it's been pretty effectively demonstrated that impeachment is not an option and he has the protection of the SC so I don't know what you think should happen. I guess they could start trying to rip Congress and the Senate apart to make impeachment possible but I think that would take at least a couple of years.

tuna74 1y ago
The House of Representatives can impeach Trump (they should), the Supreme Court said that that is the way to deal with a president doing illegal stuff.
- scrubs 1y ago
  Correct. As i argued above congress is the main culprit in all this. It's instiutionally decrepit, incompetent among other things not checking executive power and doing their job. Congress can impeach the president if there's will to do so. And the Supreme court won't touch that with a 100ft pole.

jaybrendansmith 1y ago

Who is the American elite? If you mean billionaires...they are all in on the take. If you mean big business, they are hoping for the destruction of the regulatory state, you know, the one that keeps citizens safe and healthy. If you mean the intelligentsia, they are being cowed, threatened, and fired into submission ... most will start looking for a clean exit to Europe very soon. So which elite do you mean?

bigbadfeline 1y ago

> are they just this pathetic? or do they largely see this as personally beneficial? They don't "see this", they control it. > I am endlessly fascinated by how almost the entire American elite has just accepted... policy being driven by idiotic childish whims There's nothing idiotic, childish or whimsy - bread for some, circuses for the rest - it's a scheme old as the world. The reality show isn't real.

yongjik 1y ago

Half of American voters elected an idiot based on such nice slogans as "Drain the swamp" and "Own the libs," and the said idiot is appointing to essential government positions other idiots who would be politely shown the door in any meeting of social "elites" if America was a sane country. Sure, the elites of America have a lot of power, but they don't have enough power to override the combined force of the POTUS and half of the country. What do you expect them to do? This has all the same vibe as "How could Democrats let it happen?" (Yes, Democrats does have a lot of faults. But I'm tired of everything somehow being Democrats' fault.)

lazyeye 1y ago
"But I'm tired of everything somehow being Democrats' fault"....lol
- scrubs 1y ago
  It's not wholly the dems fault. Nobody took the manhood and backbone from maga republicans: they gave it up themselves and willingly butt kissed. The dems are partially complicit insofar as they were a weak counterbalance 2016 and 2024. The more culpable entity is the US congress. As i see it it's instiutional stupidity is mainly (not totally) at the heart of the problem. It is hard to come up with first cause. But a helpful starting point for this mess was when Ross Perot ran as a populist. At that time both parties were at the start of an accelerating run of service to self and corporations over middle America. Then came newt gringrich and a whole bunch of other increasingly hyperbolic nonsense which contributed to fund raising off culture wars. America won't get fixed until congress gets fixed. A good president can pause decline but it cannot fix root causes
  - conartist6 1y ago
    I see social media algorithms as the fuel for the populist/culture-war trend. I was working at Facebook during the 2016 election and while we were trying very hard to say that Facebook didn't elect Trump by peddling Russian influence, there was almost no doubt that Trump's superior comprehension of the kind of direct-appeal "lowball" tactics that would be winning plays in that arena were the proximate cause of his victory. The platform strongly rewarded controversy because no kind of engagement was considered negative. It was a system designed to pick content that maximized engagement, so it was always going to favor grandstanding over truth-telling. By the way I agree with you wholeheartedly that the problem is that congress is not currently serving as the check and balance it was intended to be. What can we do about that? Is it time to end the filibuster?

scrubs 1y ago

I keep writing and in my personal conversations with Trump people and moderates i keep reminding: overshooting stupid far right will lead to stupid far left. We don't need that either. Time and time and time again power structures flaunt justice, due process etc. It never lasts. It's a crap shoot what comes next if what's going goes too far: will it be an enlightenment movement? The political equivalent of luther nailing up his complaints? Or a repeat of 20th century revolutions. Om the whole in the long run people don't put up with run away kings and all the BS of palace intrigue that goes with it. Control without accountability never lasts

Whoppertime 1y ago
Perhaps Joe Biden and the progressives were overshooting the last 4 years, leading to the excesses of Trump